Unami Magwenzi: Lost passports & cross-cultural divides

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Episode 194 with Unami Magwenzi.

“I always felt like something didn’t quite click for me. I was capable and doing all these things professionally, but I never felt on top of anything.”

Unami is a clinical psychologist, a pastor, a wife, and the mother of 4 children — 3 teenagers and a 5 year old. She is originally from Botswana in Southern Africa and now lives with her family in Perth, Western Australia.

Unami shares how her children’s diagnoses prompted her own self-reflection, especially when it came to her struggles with focus, organization, and sensory sensitivities. She was diagnosed recently at the age of 44.

We talk about some of the nuanced cultural perspectives surrounding ADHD, particularly in southern Africa versus Australia, and how those views have shaped Unami’s journey to self-acceptance.

Website: hopelives.live

Instagram: @hope_lives_creations

Links:

Unami’s Shopify store: hopelivestreasures.com

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Episode edited by E Podcast Productions

Unami Magwenzi 0:00
I was always just like this person, bubly, talkative, you know, no rush. Life is good, you know, it's just overshare. Let's enjoy life. But underneath that was the sense of, I feel like I'm not moving, I'm not progressing. I have all these goals, I have these things I want to achieve, this, this bigness that I see, but I don't see the evidence of it.

Katy Weber 0:27
Hello and welcome to the women and ADHD podcast. I'm your host. Katy Weber, I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45 and it completely turned my world upside down. I've been looking back at so much of my life, school, jobs, my relationships, all of it with this new lens, and it has been nothing short of overwhelming. I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience, and now I interview other women who like me discovered in adulthood they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths, both professionally and personally. Well, hello and welcome back. Before we begin, I would love to share with you this review from a listener named lengen hoben on the Apple podcast platform in Australia. It's entitled, awesome. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 48 to say it has been overwhelming is putting it lightly. I am therefore so incredibly happy that I found this podcast to have the opportunity to listen to the stories of other women that I can actually relate to is mind blowing. I always assumed everyone sees the world like I do, but they don't to then find a tribe of other women whom I can relate to is so comforting. You know lengenhoven, I couldn't agree more, and I chose this review to share in today's episode, because not only is my guest Australian, but she's also originally from Africa, and it never ceases to amaze me how we can all be from completely different areas of the planet and still relate so deeply to each other's experiences, it truly is mind blowing. So that said, despite whatever this year may hold for us, good or bad, I just want to thank all of you for being a part of this community, and I'm so glad you're here. So let's get started with today's brand new episode. Here we are at Episode 194 in which I interview UNAMI maguenzi. UNAMI is a clinical psychologist, a pastor, a wife and the mother of four children, three teenagers and a five year old. She is originally from Botswana in southern Africa and now lives with her family in Perth, Western Australia. UNAMI shares how her children's diagnoses prompted her own self reflection, especially when it came to her struggles with focus and organization and even sensory sensitivities. She was diagnosed recently at the age of 44 we also talk about some of the nuanced cultural perspectives surrounding ADHD and how those views have shaped UNO's journey to self acceptance. I know you're going to love this conversation. So without further ado, here is my interview with

Unknown Speaker 3:02
UNAMI.

Katy Weber 3:04
All right. Well, UNAMI, thank you so much for joining me. I am super excited for this conversation and to hear your perspective. I know you'll have some really interesting, unique points of view. So All right, let's get started. You were, how long ago were you diagnosed? Actually,

Unami Magwenzi 3:22
I was the diagnosis was completed last week. Oh,

Katy Weber 3:27
so there's the self diagnosis, and then there's the official diagnosis.

Unami Magwenzi 3:32
No, there's no, yeah. But what happened was, I was diagnosed by a psychologist. I went to a psychology practice and I was diagnosed, but in Australia, and you have to see a psychiatrist to confirm the diagnosis. So I only got that diagram the completion of that this last week since,

Katy Weber 3:51
wow, awesome. And so what was happening in your own life? Because I will talk about your kids a little bit in later, but I want to hear from you what was happening. What were some of the things that you started to relate to around ADHD, where you started to think, Hey, maybe I should look into this.

Unami Magwenzi 4:07
Well, I suppose the fact that, you know, I've always compared myself. I've got four kids, but there's two that I always compared myself to. I thought they were very similar to me. So there was that. But when they were diagnosed last year, the ADHD code that we took them to said to you, do realize the fact that two of your kids have a one of you has it. And I was absolutely convinced it was my husband. And I went home and I said, it's you, and he's like, No, it's you. And we asked the kids. The kids said, Of course, it's you, mom. And you know, I was like, what's going on? So I started thinking, okay, maybe I need to look into this, you know. So I stopped and started to reflect, and I realized, Okay, I am the one who loses my keys all the time with them to pay. For dishonor fees and all these things like, I started to actually reflect on it, and I thought maybe each time I go and actually get myself upset.

Katy Weber 5:08
So I did, were there any other things that you really related to, other than losing your keys? Oh

Unami Magwenzi 5:15
yeah, there's lots. There's lots. I mean, after listening to, you know, ADHD podcast, yours included, I kind of started to pick up a few things. So for one, I've always found it overwhelming to just do basic tasks like just things like cooking, things like going to the shops and doing shopping, following up on my youngest his wife, and doing, like a whole school assignments, all those things that parents are meant to do. I never knew what was due when, like, I had the information, but I was always surprised. I was book week. Okay, we're supposed to bring this. So there was always, you know, moments like that, and just also the inability to focus. A few years ago, I was working in a group practice, and I used to put a sticky note on my laptop, and I would say to my colleagues, I need the sticky note to focus. And they would say things like, yeah, yeah, it's because you got ADHD. And say, Yeah, I've got ADHD. And would joke around about, you know, about the whole thing. And then when I did get diagnosed, and I told them I left that practice by then, when I told them, they were like, Yeah, of course, we told you, I said, but I thought we were all joking. They said, No, we were not joking. We were serious. So that was really interesting. Yeah, just over the years, I've always kind of had to moments where I felt like something just didn't quite thick for me, I always felt slower than other people, like I was very capable. I was doing all these things, you know, professionally, and I was but I just couldn't get on top of things. Also, we had a bit of conflict with my husband, because he was always thinking, what's going on? Why is the house a mess? I'm like, I don't know I cleaned I'm working on it. What would happen is I would start something in one room, and then I'll leave it to go and check out another room. And I get there, I see something else that needs to be done, and I'll start that. And before you know it, I've started three different projects in three different rooms. And then I look at the time, I think, oh, it's time to go pick up the kids, so you have all these things that are half done. And yeah, so that was frustrating. But the biggest, I think, challenge, was always finances. I could never work out why I was getting so many dishonest the honor fees, because I was forgetting to pay bills, and I'll try and set up direct debits, and then I'll do this, but I was still struggling even then, because then I'll forget something, then I'll have to transfer money from this account to that account. And it just didn't make sense to me why all of that was happening. Because I was thinking switched on. So why am I not able to get on top of finances and all of that, and in terms of other things, I always hold myself a lazy eater, like I could just survive on bread and slice of tea. Like, why the thought of having to just prepare, but I had to discipline myself to actually prepare a new but yeah, things like that, that other people, I think, would just take for granted, yeah? So I started thinking about all those things, yeah, you

Katy Weber 8:31
know. Well, it's interesting when you talk about sort of joking about it, because I feel like I had a similar experience with my therapist. She would talk about it, she would say, like, I, you know, you should look into it. I think you have ADHD. And I would say, yeah, maybe, like, it didn't really, like land with me in a way that it did after COVID and lockdown when, you know, when I really I think it was that connection between some of these behaviors that were very common. You know, I had all everything you talked about I shared right the bounce checks, not understanding how I forgot things, you know, forgetting all the things with school, but like, always realizing that with every one of those behaviors came that shame, right? That terrible feeling of like, what's wrong with me and how much that I never made, that connection, that maybe all of that was ADHD, and that's why I was ending up in this depressed state all the time, because I would often, and I've talked about this on the podcast too, that feeling of like, why am I so depressed? I have a great life, I have great kids, I have a great family, I have a wonderful husband, a supportive husband, like, why am I insisting on being depressed? And it wasn't so I think it was like that realization that there's such self blame, you know, it's always about like, the me problem versus, Oh, you mean, there's a name for this. There's, this is a, this is a, you know, a neurological issue. It's so enlightening. You know, it's and that's why it's such a relief when we get that diagnosis.

Unami Magwenzi 9:58
Exactly. And I think for me, the thing that stood out the most was just the fact that I've got so many unfinished projects. I get a lot of ideas. I get all these brilliant ideas. I think they're brilliant. And then I go on a mission of like, this is it, I'm going to do this, and it's going to change the world, and it's going to do all sorts of things. And then before long, something else pops up, very exciting to do. So I leave that one and I go start another one. And so I started to observe that actually, I've done that for for many years. I've got a few online courses that are waiting for me to attend to just things I've got, I've got books unfinished. It took me five years to write a 30 page book, like, that's how bad it got. And I'm currently, currently working on one that I was supposed to finish last September. I don't know when I'll finish it. It's just it's ridiculous. When you think about it, like I'm thinking, okay, when I start a project, I can predict that this should take six months, or maybe a year. But five years later, I'm still writing the same book. So after the diagnosis, I started being more aware of, you know, the things I said, I'm very careful now I don't just say, I don't just tell people, this is, you know, what I'm going to do. Another thing was multiple handbags. I've got so many handbags Now, some people are into shoes, but the interesting thing about my handbags is that it's the same version of the handbag, or backpacks. I think I once had, like four or three or four black bags, because the one I bought previously just didn't quite do it. But at the time when I bought it, I thought, This is it. This is this is the bag that's going to solve all my problems. And the next time I see another one, I'm like, I think actually, this one works better, because that one that I bought doesn't have this particular pocket which I need for that particular thing. Yeah. So I started realizing that I've got all these bags. And what's funny is, one of my daughters, she's not, she's we haven't taken her for an assessment yet. She's got like, seven versions of the same lip gloss, like it's the same lip gloss, seven or multiple, uh, perfumes. I'm thinking of her. I recognize this behavior. It's me, right? That's

Katy Weber 12:28
really interesting, that idea of, like, always searching for the right fit, because that is so relatable in terms of a lot of things, right? I have the same thing with purses. And yet, there's, you know, I was when you were talking, I had the, there's this wallet that I bought when I was very young, and I love it. It was the perfect wallet. It was great. And I remember one year for Christmas, my husband bought me a new wallet, and I got, I got so mad at him. I was yelling at him, because I was like, What makes you think I, I need like, I like, I felt like, I like wallets. I just want this wallet. And he couldn't understand why I was so upset with him, but I think it was that feeling of like, how important it is to get that right fit. But I was also thinking about how I lose important cards, because I'm constantly moving thing, you know, I'll lose, like, I'll lose, like, important bus passes or credit cards and or ID because I'm moving it always for one wallet to another.

Unami Magwenzi 13:28
I ended up on Interpol last year because I lost our passport, and then I found I found them. Then I forgot to report that I found them. I showed up at the airport. Oh, this is just crazy enough at the airport in South Africa to come back to Australia, and they're like, Do you have another passport? I said, No, this is fairly new. I don't have any. They're like, did you ever lose your passport? I said, Yeah, I lost it in December, but I found it. Did you tell anyone that you founded? I was like, No, I didn't. And they're like, well, you're on the Interpol. You can't travel. I was like, No way. So I had to go back to Botswana, which is where I'm from. And the rest of the family went to Australia, while by five year old, and I moved back to Botswana because I lost the passport. Then we got it all sorted out eventually. And then when we came back, the next morning, we were leaving to go to Australia, but that evening, the night before, I'm packing everything, and I'm like, where's the passport? This is second time around mine and my five year old, and I can't find the Passport, and all I could think about was my husband and how stressful it had been for him for me to tell him what's the passport found them. So I'm thinking, How do I tell most of the passports again? So I called the Uber driver. Up. You know that brought us. We were staying the next morning. I'm leaving a few hours later. And I called him, and he said, Okay, I'll check just McDonald's. I'll check whether. So he calls me back and says, Yep, they're here in the seat in the Uber and he brought them to me. Luckily, it was the same, we tend to hire the same Uber driver, so that was really so he came, and he brought the passports. And, you know, I'd love to say the problem was solved, but because, yeah, we got to the passports, and we're like, yeah, we're here, ready to go there. Like, have you got a lot of passport? I was like, No, I don't have another passport. And they're like, you, you're on an intercom. I said, I just had this experience a week ago, and I went back to Botswana, and I'm back again, and everybody's getting ready to go on board, and I'm sitting here thinking, this is this is not happening anyway. Eventually, eventually, they were able to sort it out. They contacted a few people. It just looked like somebody had not done their list to kind of say, yep, you can believe, you know, take care of the thing. So, yeah, that's this, but that's my life. There's always stuff like that happening, you know? So, yes, so that's, I think it's crazy.

Katy Weber 16:26
I hear you now. You mentioned in our correspondence about, you know, being from Botswana. How is ADHD viewed in southern Africa? How is it? Is it something that you've talked about with your extended family?

Unami Magwenzi 16:40
No, that's the thing. You see, I came to Australia when I was 18, going online, so spent most of my adult life here. I do go back home often, and I'm in contact with family, but we don't really talk much about ADHD, although I have to say there is probably about two family members that I've got ADHD, but it's always been spoken about just in the background. It's not really something that was ever been like me. Being diagnosed has been the shock of my life, and I've only told my mom and my aunt and maybe two cousins, so probably about four people know about it, and my brother. So it's actually not something, this is, this is, yeah, yeah. This is the biggest, this is your coming out

Katy Weber 17:26
story, exactly.

Unami Magwenzi 17:27
This is it. So, yeah, nobody, yeah. My family doesn't really know. They don't really talk about it. I don't think people necessarily, yeah, people understand a lot of you know, things that people deal with, but ADHD is not one of those things that's ever been spoken about. It's all new. I think we know about exists, but it's all new. Certainly, my understanding of it to being diagnosed has really changed, even as a professional

Katy Weber 17:57
Well, having interviewed women from from so many different countries. It feels like ADHD is a product of Western Protestant work ethic and capitalism in the way that it's a much more difficult for a neurodivergent brain to exist in Western cultures, right, because of the demands and the classroom environments. And you know that it feels like there are cultures and countries where, if you are neurodivergent and you have ADHD, it's not necessarily labeled as a disorder, right? It's not pathologized. And so I wonder, you know, given your background too, as a psychologist like do you know, what are your thoughts about this pathologization of these behaviors, you know, or these kind of thought patterns,

Unami Magwenzi 18:44
yeah, I certainly, I think, you know, my view of AAP has changed since being diagnosed, because my experience of it was always through, you know, clients that it comes through, and it was usually young kids, you know, that I got AP and it was not a selling for me for assessment, because that's not my specialty, because maybe just to work with them, you know, help them, whether it's anxiety or whatever COVID That may have been there. So it was never really a specialty of mine. But after the diagnosis, I really went into it. I tried to focus on the everything I can think of, YouTube, podcasts, books, the whole lot, you know, and I came to understand that, okay, it's definitely different way, different way in different way of thinking that that set well with me, more than the idea that, you know, there's something wrong with you, simplicity. But from a cultural perspective, I think just with anything mental health, the culture generally doesn't highlight that. You know, there's something wrong. I think some some do, but I think there's always this sense of, it's community. You know, collectivist societies tend to just kind of embrace things more than individual mistakes. Societies. But of course, the differences in families. So in my family, there was, I mean, we've had different mental health issues, so something like wouldn't necessarily be the negative as such, think it would be more okay. So this is different, okay? This is, this is another thing, maybe a different thing, to to work with, to deal with. So I think I feel like there's a bit more opening race and such that if you say to people, I've got ABCs that, Oh, okay. And then they move on. People don't dwell on it.

Katy Weber 20:42
I feel like a very hopeful for the next generation, our children who talk about their mental health in a much more open way, right? So it's like, I have ADHD, and you're like, Oh, that's nice. I'm left handed. Like, it's just one of those things that's off head. There's no stigma there. Yeah,

Unami Magwenzi 20:57
yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Like, thinking back to your question about what things made me think that time blindness is such a big thing for me. Like even before I was going to just getting ready for this interview, I was thinking, I need to go to the shops. Now, before the diagnosis, I would have gone to the shops, and I would have shown been in front of this laptop two minutes before and in panic mode and thinking, oh my goodness, where is this? But now that I'm aware I don't do things like that, actually stop and say, think about this. You don't actually have the time to do this. So I'm always that person who shows up like, five minutes before something's done. My husband sometimes says to me, did you wake up at 5am so how is it that you were late in dropping the kids? I'm like, hey, you know stuff happens. I don't know something happens there. You know, I could not explain it. You know, when my kids were young, I had the same problem. I'd wake up early hours. It didn't matter what time I wake up. I was still late, to the point that I remember driving up to one of my kids school, and I was celebrating, and the kids were like, Mom, what's going on. I was so excited. What's going on, like, and I was giving myself up, like it was such, this is a funny thing for them to watch me just really excited that I actually got them to school on time before the bell went, you know? So I used to experience that because I've got like, three teenagers, and then I've got a five year old, so, you know, there's them back there, and then there's this little one, and I'm noticing, oh, the same issues as I did back then, but back then I always blames the kids. I was like, if the kids, if they go under the bed when they're supposed to be putting their clothes on and, you know? But now I'm like, okay, maybe it's not just the kids. There must be something else going on there. I'm that past parent who, like, a few weeks ago, for a whole week, I was that parent who was, you know, parents were holding the gate open for me as I ran through the door. Had gone ran through the gate like, you know. So it was just a funny picture in my head that, oh my gosh, I am that, you know, who is everybody feeling sorry for her because she's just like, and my five year old will say to me, Mom, we're not late. I know today we're not late. You know, she gets excited with me and losing the car, she she's like, Mom, you're always losing the car. Yeah, I know. She's like, you're forgettable. Like, yes, I'm forgettable.

Katy Weber 23:46
Oh, kids, um, gotta love their honesty. But you know, one of the things that I love about the honesty with children is that there is no judgment sometimes, right? When they're that young, and so it can be a real opportunity to reframe a lot of this stuff, right? It's like, we're the ones who bring the judgment into that and and so how, like, that's one of the things I've noticed since my diagnosis, is just how I talk about myself to my children has changed dramatically. Because it's like, I know, because both my kids have been diagnosed with ADHD since me, I had a sort of similar experience where I had my son was cut from the same cloth. I was like, if I have it, you definitely have it. But my daughter was not like me at all. And it wasn't until I was interviewing women and realizing, Oh, this is also what ADHD looks like. So both of them have been diagnosed, but they're both very, very different. But I think one of the things is how, you know, I feel like my role now as their mom is to uplift 8h you know, to really talk about the strengths and to really have a sense of humor about the deficits and and it's hard sometimes, right? You're just like, oh, it's it can be tight, like when you were talking about picking them up late. I. To do that all the time, because I'm like, the worst thing for me is if I have five minutes to spare, because if I have five minutes to spare, I think I can do anything. And so there's been so many times where I'm like, I've got five minutes, I'm going to just, like, sweep and mop the kitchen floor. I'm like, that doesn't take five minutes, but like, I don't know what everything in my mind takes five minutes. I've gotten into trouble so many times with

Unami Magwenzi 25:22
that. Yeah, exactly. It's so funny. The thing that surprised me though about myself was this idea that I actually have sensory issues. I never thought I had. I didn't know about sensory issues anything, but I started to look better. But I used to wonder why, when I go to bed, I had to have pillows on my head, like I had to have pillows on my head, and only my nose would stick out so for breathe. And I don't like loud noise. And you know, my husband likes to play his music loud, and I'm like, This is too much. And I used to think it was because I was a therapist. And I would say to him, I was like, in my work, it's very quiet and gentle. This is too much. That's why I can't send the loud noise. And he would think I'm just, you know, spoiling his life, and, you know, spoiling his vibe with the, you know, not allowing him to have this loud noise. So there's always that potential around that. But also these things, like, I can't drink cold water. I just cannot. I've always struggled with water. It has to be hot water, not warm, not warm, hot water. Otherwise, I just can't do it, you know? And, yeah, certain music just offends me, like it offends my senses. I just can't stand it. So this is a few things that, you know, okay, maybe that's what it

Katy Weber 26:43
is. You know, that's so funny. I never thought about that. But I apologize to anybody out there who loves iced coffee, but I do not understand how anyone can drink iced coffee. It's the most disgusting thing in my mind. I love and it's coffee is hot.

Speaker 1 26:58
But anyway, yeah, yeah, well, and I think

Katy Weber 27:02
also with parenting too, like you said, like, when your kids are little, it's just chaos. And so I didn't know if this was just normal parenting, right? Like I did, I would assume I never would have said I had sensory issues, but I think for for me, it was the noise and this and the movements and all of the chaos of young kids that I would suddenly go from being okay to yelling at them and not knowing where that rage came from. And that was a huge light bulb moment for me too. Was that, oh, this is a sensory thing. This is not I'm a horrible mom thing. Yeah, yeah,

Unami Magwenzi 27:39
exactly. And I noticed that in myself, like mornings getting ready for, yeah, the school run and Sunday, Sunday mornings are the worst. It's getting better. But Sunday mornings with church, oh my goodness. Like, if there'll be any arguments in our house, it's Sunday morning, you know, because it's like you're trying to get people hopefully, you gotta wake people up, who should be waking them forever, and then, you know, you gotta go wake them up again and again. And then you try to get yourself ready, and it's just chaos, and you're thinking, and you know, in my role, you know, I've gotta go and do, let's say, some, not all the time, that I can do preaching. So on a Sunday, when I'm supposed to be doing the preaching, you obviously have to prepare. You have to be in a certain head space so you don't, you don't need any conflict around you. So I try to communicate to the family that guys, well, just for today, just for this one, let's just don't fight kids. Just everybody get along. No, it's just as chaotic as any other. I have to just breathe through it all. But yeah, I find it quite, you know, overwhelming. I just have to remove myself sometimes. And, yeah, it's just funny, yeah,

Katy Weber 28:46
that those are those moments where I feel like knowledge is power, right? Because now you're sort of like, okay, so what I need is, I need that tie. I need that, you know, I had a client once. Call it joints, right? Where it's like, these joints between transitioning from one environment to another, where you need that centering, you need that like exhale. You know, you don't get that a lot when your kids are young. And so it's like, Where can I intentionally bring those, those those moments of exhale back into my life

Unami Magwenzi 29:16
once in the car, like, I don't know how old my kids were, but I just went and hit the floor of the car, and all I could hear was the kids saying, and I was just like, flat in the car, not moving. I was like, Ah, okay, that must have been overwhelmed. Like, why else would a grown woman going to hide from her five or four year old kids,

Katy Weber 29:42
no, but we talk about that all the time, of waiting in the car before you go go into the house, right? Is another joint, right? And I think a lot of us who are neurodivergent have that moment of like, I just got home, let me just take a minute, take a beat before I go in. And I used to think, like, am I a terrible mom? Because. I'm not always running to go see my children all the time, and I'm desperate, you know, but it's like taking that moment I'm just like, Okay, I just need that calm, that moment to myself to recharge whatever it is. Yeah, you know, it's funny, because when I was a kid, we would go to church every morning, and it was the same, and I never thought about this. But we, you know, we would have those moments of, like, everybody in the car is fighting, and we would get to the parking lot of the church, and we'd be like, Okay, everybody smile. And I would always, as a as a kid, I would be like, This is so hypocritical. What are we doing? This is awful. But really, now, like, as you were talking about it, had, I had this realization, this moment where I was like, no, these were my parents just giving themselves that moment, right? That joint. It wasn't necessarily hypocrisy, because everybody is all, you know, all families fight, but it was like these moments that they needed to center themselves. And as a child, I was thinking like, this is a we're living a lie. But no, I appreciate your perspective, because I feel like I just reframed that whole childhood experience. For me,

Unami Magwenzi 31:10
yeah, I don't know this is so many things. There's a sadness. I think about like there's some really good things. But for me, when I think about now that I'm aware of it, I'm finding that I'm also aware of the impact. Just this decision paralysis is such a big thing for me. Like my list, my to do list, just never and every day I'm adding to it every day. I'm thinking, I'm going, I'm, you know, making some progress, and I am, but I'm not as I'm not making as much progress as I would like to. So you'd have like, 20 tasks in front of you, and you're thinking, I don't even know where to start. Okay, that's it. I'm gonna go with my favorite show. That's that's literally what happens. I sit there, and I'm thinking, I've got three hours. Three hours later, I come out and I've done 20 minutes worth of work, because I went to do something, and then something else popped up. And I thought, what's really important? I should attend to that. And then I moved from that. I used to think, well, because I wasn't aware of the ADP. I'm just used to think, you know, I'm just busy. People will say to me, you're doing so much. It didn't feel like so much to me to be like, because I've got all the multiple roles, right? So they're like, you're doing so much, you know, you need to cut down. I was like, yeah, there's nothing to cut. Like, I would like to cut, but I see where to cut. It felt like everything I was doing had to be done, but I just couldn't, never get on top of it, you know, never could. And the paperwork is the worst, like, Oh my goodness. Like, now the number of emails I'm yet to respond to, you know, I'll be like, Okay, I'll get back to that one. I'm constantly reorganizing my calendar, and I'm trying to find a way to fit things in, and it's like, it's almost like I create an extra hour for myself in my day, and make myself have a 25 hour day, you know? Yeah, so just that decision paralysis and this inability to get on top of things, and this feeling like, you know, and the rejection sensitivity as well. I didn't know I had that. I always, I've always been a sensitive person, but they didn't have a name for that. So that's been interesting to observe as well. I've always interesting thing at the moment the church will be seeing on relationships and the message, I did the message, and it was on people pleasing. So that was really interesting, because, you know, when I talk about myself, storyteller, and, yeah, shared a bit about the people pleasing tendencies. And it's been interesting being able to look at it from the ADB perspective, you know, that information big so you haven't hurt people's feelings and the impact of all of that. That was

Katy Weber 34:06
one of those things that I started to look at, especially with my daughter, because I think she falls much more into that category of the, you know, the the raised as a girl, female, who has perfectionism, anxiety, people pleasing, right? And when I started to look at those as trauma responses, really just, you know, that hyper vigilance, that feeling like I need to control how people see me, right? That a lot of us have that feeling of, I'm tricking people, or, you know, if there's some way that I can, you know, make people like me like, develop our sense of worth from how we serve others, and how complicated all of that is. But once I started seeing that, you know, realizing that this was a much more complex, much more complicated qualities that so many of us experience. So when you're talking about like the being more aware of the impact of some of these behaviors that you might have. Just dismissed before, but really seeing that like deep seated that's what I think of. And even like with RSD, you know, I always, I always joke that everybody remembers where they were the first time they heard about rejection, sensitive, disruptive, because it hits you like a punch in the gut in terms of just how much you didn't realize you were struggling. Right in some ways.

Unami Magwenzi 35:22
The interesting thing for me, actually, I recently worked with a health coach, and the reason I stopped working with him was he was brilliant. He was so good. I stopped working with him because the way he works is that every day he texts on me, which is really good, like every day, Voice Note, text message, like it's really but it came to a point where I actually had a conversation with him where I said, I think I'd like to reduce, reduce it so that we don't do it every day. Because I could tell that I was starting to put pressure on myself to make sure I was being a good student. And I told him that, you know, his injury good understanding of all of that, said, Yeah, I'm sensing that. That's what's going on here with me, and I'm struggling, not that he was putting pressure on me, but I was putting pressure. But it doesn't mean too much as a it didn't matter what he said. It didn't matter that he was like, No, don't worry about it. It's not about that. It's not still I felt the pressure. So I was like, Okay, I need, I need to kind of maybe step back from this process. So that was an interesting experience for me, because I didn't think I was like that. I thought I'd be like, Okay, I'm getting a coach. I'm gonna do it. And I did end up saying to him, You know what? I realized that I wasn't ready for coaching in that context anymore. I realized I wasn't ready. Like, I'm one of these goals. I know what to do. I want to do it, but whole thing requires that you be in a specific head space and ready to go, and I was finding out and like, saboteur, I mean, I've struggled with obesity. We've got obesity on my father's side of the family, so I've struggled with weight, which is all my life. And so the ADC thing has also made me think about that as well. Like, okay, what? What of my eating behaviors are linked to, you know, the impulsivity and the dopamine things and all. So that's been another interesting thing for me, yeah, well,

Katy Weber 37:29
and not only that, but you know, eating beyond fullness, like just not being in charge, you know, not being connected to our hunger and fullness cues because of interoception, which was a term I had never heard before, until I was diagnosed with ADHD and started realizing, you know, that idea of how we, just a lot of the time, are not paying attention to our body's cues, right? And, you know, we bump into things. I don't know. I have to go to the bathroom until I'm bursting. You know, I don't know I have a headache until my husband asks me, what's wrong? You look like you're really struggling. And I was like, Oh yeah, I guess I have a headache, you know, like, all those moments where it's like, we don't pay attention. We're so in our heads that we don't pay attention. And so it makes sense that it's like, I don't know I'm hungry until I'm starving, and then if I'm starving, I'm like, you I'm a lazy eater. I'm eating peanut butter with a spoon or eating an entire bag of chips or something, you know, like the food stuff was mind blowing to me, because, like, you know, I worked with binge eaters too, so it was a lot, you know, and I had been through diet culture. I was a former Weight Watchers leader, so as a yo yo Dieter my whole life. And really, that was mind blowing to think about how ADHD influences, not only that, that feeling of not knowing our hunger and fullness cues, but also that, like you were saying, like wanting to be the good student, right? Wanting to be perfect at everything, wanting to know exactly how much point something is, and calories, and weighing and being exact, and then burning yourself out, and then saying, Oh, screw it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna eat the whole freezer, you know, all of those moments. Yeah. Yeah. Funny

Unami Magwenzi 39:03
when you talk about bumping into things because, oh my goodness. So at the moment, the psychiatrist has given me the diagnosis, but they can't describe because they want me to see a neurologist. And the reason they want me to see a neurologist is because when they were assessing a measure that I've had so many calls over the years, most of them unexplained. That's what I say. I said they're unexplained about that he's like because he's on me getting the medication. So he was a bit disappointed that they put a pause on it. And he's like, why did you tell them the polls were unexplained? What Paul is unexplained? Like, did you know trip or something? He's like, so did you just find yourself on the floor? Like, yeah, exactly. That's it. I find myself on the floor. I mean, if you trace it. Could probably find, but I really can't explain it in a way that makes sense to me. I just find that flow. So the Yeah, the psychiatrist was like, Maybe you should say neurologist, so they can check, you know, if there's something else going on, because we don't want to give you stimulants in anything like that. Yeah. So that was funny. Unexplained

Katy Weber 40:23
bruises, I think is absolutely part of ADHD and like this just happened to me recently, where I'm back in school and our both of my classes this semester are tiny little desks with the attached little desk on the chair right, or tiny little chairs with this attached desk, and I had this huge bruise on my thigh, in the front of my thigh, and I had no idea where it came from. And my husband was like, that's awful. Like, it was really big. He was like, where did you get that bruise? I was like, I have no idea. And then I went back to class the next week and realized what I had been doing was every time I sat in my chair and got out of the chair, I was hitting the desk over and over and over again with the same spot of my leg. And I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. That's where it's from. But it's like, those moments where I'm like, no idea, and I was doing it over and over and over again, yeah, it's everywhere it really is. I mean, that's what I think is so mind blowing about this diagnosis in adulthood, it's every like, it's in every part of your life.

Unami Magwenzi 41:23
And, you know, like, I think I've had to really practice self compassion, just reflecting on some things, like, example, you know, my husband doesn't want to, like, you know, he's an accountant, so even he doesn't mind, thank goodness, because when I try and do it, I just mess it up, but he puts his money in our account. So his money in our culture, fees and everything. And I then forgot that I'd set up some direct debits from the same time. So somehow he put the money. Whoever told me that you take their money, took their money. So I forgot about these the following year, which was this year, we get an email from the school about the fees. So my husband calls me, he's like, Wait, mom, what's this email about fees? I thought I'd put money in your account for that. And I've had this moment where I'm like, No, I think it's an explanation for this, but I don't even know what it is, where to start or whether to bother, because you might just not get it. And, you know, you get many, I've gotten many moments like that where I'm like, I can't even I don't want to bother explain, because I don't think it's going to make sense to the person I'm telling it's going to seem like I'm making an excuse. So that's been the kind of like the really challenging part, where to say, You know what? Just, just be compassionate to yourself. This is bigger than you. This is this, you know, ad is a big thing. It's the small things that people don't actually appreciate. And you can't really explain it to people unless, you know, doesn't understand it, unless

Katy Weber 43:05
you're talking to somebody else with ADHD, and then it's, yeah,

Unami Magwenzi 43:08
right, exactly they get it, yeah,

Katy Weber 43:13
oh my goodness, yeah, yeah. How long have you been married?

Unami Magwenzi 43:16
It's 20 years this year. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, and my husband, actually, after the diagnosis, he said to me, Wow, it's like, so many things make sense now, like he was brave. He was actually like, Oh my goodness. And he even said to me that I don't know we're talking about. He's like, Look, stop focusing, because I think I must have been asking him about why he's not saying something about some things like, I'm still processing this ABC diagnosis as well, right? Because he's looking back at things, bills, he's had to pay tax office accounts, he's had to clear and all the stuff that has just like his reaction way back then was like, what's going on? Like, you know, why are we not able to move forward? You know? Thank goodness he's an account today. He was able to make sure that we were sorted that sort of things. But if you if you had left it all up to me, yeah, would have been disastrous. Not because, um, because I've always try and explain to I'm not careless with money. It's just something I can't explain, something that happens. And once I learned about executive, you know, dysfunction, of like, yeah, okay, that makes sense. You know, my brain is put something together,

Katy Weber 44:36
yeah? Oh, my goodness. So Well, I think that's why I asked. Because I was like, if somebody's been with you that long, because my husband, my husband and I, we're about to celebrate 21 years, and it's like, the same, you know, I'm like, he's been with me this long, nothing is a surprise to him, right? But also realizing that, that it is like, there's this partnership that you're going through in terms of understanding, you know, this was such a. Um, this was such a profound identity shift for me that obviously our relationship has shifted in a lot of ways. And it is, you know, I appreciate that he has had to listen to me go on and on and on my ADHD. But it's like you're developing this language, right? You, like you said, you're both processing this, this awareness and but this person knows you more than any you know better than anyone else. And so I think, you know, it's nice to have that, to be able to explain a lot of these behaviors. Like you said,

Unami Magwenzi 45:31
he made me laugh because he one day he doesn't like it when I use what he calls it psychology terms. I just think it's normal conversation. But he says, I say these things. And one day I said we were having one of our family meetings, and I said, Look, guys, we are we are in the household. He react. He's like, What do you mean when I don't say things like that? I haven't, like, it was just too much for him, like, I had to back off a bit of that. Okay, he's not ready for for me to I was embracing it like, you know, and the funny thing is, my husband, like, he's an introvert, I'm an introvert, and this over sharing thing, I never knew that. That's what it was. I just thought, Oh, this is my personality, you know. Like, I'll talk to everyone, and I'll tell them everything, like, I'm just an open book, and my husband was the exact opposite. Everybody everything about your whole life. Why you tell anybody everything about your whole life? Like, it didn't make sense to me that people had private lives. You know, so,

Katy Weber 46:44
oh, my goodness, I feel like we have the exact same marriage. Now, I want to just ask you too, about, you know, you're talking about self compassion, because a lot of this is, you know, a lot of this is reframing for ourselves. But also, you know, you're a woman of color who is a psychologist. You have four children who are also of color, who are going to be dealing with neurodivergence. How do you talk to them about advocating for themselves, in school, in community, in society? Because, you know, it is statistically, there is a lot more pressure, as you know, on people of color when it comes to, I don't know what even is the word behaving right in in society, and how do, how are you advocating? How are you talking about that with them in terms of advocating for themselves?

Unami Magwenzi 47:31
Yeah, look, our kids are interesting in that number one, our household is really loud. Everyone in the house is loud, and they've got their own opinion, from the oldest to the youngest, right? And everybody thinks they're the funniest person in the house, like it's just one of those households. So our kids are quite vocal, generally speaking. Anyway, they they have, they have their own opinions, and they'll express them, you know, we'll go back and so forth. The interesting thing with our household is that my husband allows me from Africa. Our kids were all born in Australia, so they're actually between cultures. So they come home and, yeah, we do the African thing. We you know, we're African. We do things African way. They go to school. Things are done the Australian way. So it's just really interesting to just try and navigate that. So when it comes to conversations about, you know, advocating for themselves, it's never really kind of been a conversation we've had in a big way, just because, from since the kids were young, we've kind of always had these family meetings, but in that family meeting, people get towards their opinions. People get to talk about what's going on in their lives, and they try and express them. Some days have been better than others in terms of the conversations, but it kind of has created this environment where people can just talk about what is going on. So the ADHD thing has just kind of become this just another thing that we talk about, not necessarily something out there that we focus on. It's just been kind of like, oh, so we've got ADHD in the household, so we just kind of treat it like any other thing, other any other new thing to talk about. So because they were all born here, I feel like they're more Australian than African, although they, they, they identify with both, but more so with the applicant. So they, they want to be seen as African, but in terms of how they are, they are, very much, from our perspective, Australian children. So sometimes they struggle. They're like, what are we? Are we African? Are we Australian? I'm like, you're African Australian. I. So that's what we say to them, that's what I say to them. So I think, yeah, there isn't anything that I can look at and say, Okay, this has been a big, big problem that we actually go and exclusively advocate for this because of the fact that they're from a different culture. There's been those issues, maybe in terms of them feeling like, okay, they're a minority, or issues to do their hair, and people not being able to have their hair certain way. And there's small things that come up to friends or people to say, maybe some every now and then, some racist remarks, things like that, but the ADHD thing hasn't come up, has an issue as such. So my 14 year old and my 19 year old son are the ones who have the diagnosis, so they're both on medication, but I think she's adjusted easier than my son, and what I mean is he's got her to take the medication at the end of the consistent with it, but I feel like that's part of the not being consistent, whereas with my daughter, she's been good with that, but I have to remind her. But of course, I forget so, so that's been tricky as well. So that set an alarm to remind her, just yet, I do

Katy Weber 51:23
the same. I do the same with my teenage daughter. I have to, you know, especially when it comes to remembering forms to sign. And Mom, I told you three times I'm like, Did you anyway? Yeah. But you know, one of the things that is so frustrating is is, you know, that when a white boy is misbehaving in class, the teacher will say, Oh, he probably has ADHD, let him get help, right? But if it's a, if it is a child, a girl or a child of color, like they are sent to the principal's office, right? It's not, you know, there's, there's these expectations of children because of a lot of the just misunderstanding around ADHD, that hopefully we are, thankfully with podcasts and books and Tiktok and everything else, we're breaking through a lot of those barriers, but feel like there's just this added pressure that we don't talk about to To be a good kid, right? And it's heightened. It's unfortunate,

Unami Magwenzi 52:25
yeah, yeah. I'm thinking back to when, when I was younger, I was always an underperformer, as in, like, I always felt like there was more to me. It was just always a thought that there's more to me, but I'm not displaying them all. I feel like there's more, but I'm not I'm just slow. I always felt slow, slow in action. I was the one who would fight just simple things. I remember even at university, when I first came to Australia, I was like, I didn't know that everybody was buying her computer, like, small things like that. I was like, the government was, you know, because we were government sponsored, and the government had sorted out so that we could buy computers out of what they were doing for us. But I didn't like information like that, something small, and I was like, why am I the last one to find out. They always felt like I was, you know, the last one to find things out. And looking at my kids, if the two that I said are very similar, and the ones that have been diagnosed, they're both very similar personalities, and they're always very laid back like and that's how, you know, but now I recognize maybe this ADHD, like maybe even though there's a hyperactive side of it, but I was always just like this, the person bubly cooperative, you know, no rush. Life is good. You know, just over share, let's enjoy life. But underneath that was the sense of, I feel like I'm not moving, I'm not progressing. I have all these goals. I have these things I want to achieve. Is this bigness that I see, but I don't see the evidence of it, and because of the fact that I'm moving from one thing to another, start, pause, starting something else. Pause, you. Pause, pause, pause, pause, and then at the end, I'm like, Oh, I'm out of time.

Katy Weber 54:23
Oh, my goodness, that was so eloquent, too. I feel like I just deeply related to that. But one of the things I feel like I have to tell myself when it comes to all of the unfinished projects is that it's not finishing the project that is important to me, it's learning about the stuff that is important to me, right? It's the learning and not the finishing, and that's okay, right? Like, there's not, you know, it would be nice to have a finished product, but for me, I got what I wanted out of it, and I moved on. And that, that's how I've kind of reframed it for me, and I, you know, but

Unami Magwenzi 54:54
that's my problem. I never got what I wanted from it, because what I. What I wanted from it was to find out the final like, the things that I wasn't finishing with, things because my ideas, I'm always thinking, Okay, I'm going to do this online course, and I want to sell it, and I want to make money from it. I never made the money because I never finished. I get the idea I started, but I don't finish it, and then I come up with another one that's the problem. So when it comes to just, you know, I guess, being an entrepreneur that can put it like that, it's like, what are these ideas? I could do this, I could do this. I could do this. And sometimes I have these conversations, and if people just knew these projects and how good they could be, it's all good in here, implementing it. It's like, and I said to someone the other day, I was like, realization that with the ideas that I had in my head, actually 20 people. That's the only way

Katy Weber 55:55
coaching this is why coaching is so wonderful for ADHD, as long as they don't text you every single day, finding that right balance. But yeah, right. It's like having that having that thought partner, having that person who helps you get from A to B and all the steps in between. Oh, my goodness, I feel like we are living weirdly parallel lives, as I often do when I'm talking to women with ADHD, so I really appreciate you sharing your story. I probably I've got so many more questions. I feel like we go on for for many more hours, but I'm curious, do you would you if you could magically rename ADHD to something else? Would you give it another name?

Unami Magwenzi 56:38
I thought about that question. We went over and the student in me was trying to come up with the perfect answer, and I put into that. So I came up with all sorts of things, but finally I came up with dysregulated attention and unsettled brain activity. And I call it that Weber. I I love it. Dysregulated attention, dysregulated attention and unsettled brain activity.

Katy Weber 57:11
Unsettled brain activity, I like that because it's not pathologized, right? And so it's getting rid of the disorder part, but also talks about the the unsettled brain to something I definitely would relate to, because that's the other thing. I don't have one either. I always ask people, because I don't have one. But I'm like, What would I have connected to, right? Because I never connected to that idea of ADHD before, because I had this image of this little boy, and so I never connected to it. So I'm like, What would I have connected to as an adult? And I really like that dysregulated attention, unsettled brain, yeah,

Unami Magwenzi 57:44
yeah.

Katy Weber 57:47
Activity, activity, right, yeah. You

Unami Magwenzi 57:51
know what this. This wouldn't work as a as a name, but I think really, if I had to think about it, I'd say they should have called it. It's not your fault.

Unknown Speaker 58:00
Oh, that's perfect. I know,

Speaker 1 58:04
right. There you go. Yeah,

Katy Weber 58:09
um, I think that might be my favorite. Yeah, there's

Unami Magwenzi 58:13
so much that happens that, like you're saying the shame and just that feeling of, oh my goodness, like, what am I missing? What's where's the there's all these gaps. But, yeah, it's not my fault, and that's what I found for myself. Like the diagnosis brought this sense of, oh my goodness, it's okay to be me, redefining what what the me is, and it's okay to be me, and it's not my fault. Like there's a reason, there's a reason why I did that or I didn't do that, I can laugh about it, you know? Oh yeah,

Katy Weber 58:45
I love that. That, yeah, let's call it that. I think we, I think we should. I n, y, f, the new name, it's not your fault.

Unami Magwenzi 58:54
It's not your fault. Oh, gosh, so,

Katy Weber 58:59
um, gosh, you know. So you are not only a pastor, but you also are a psychologist and a coach, right? You? So where can people find you if they want to work with you? Are you taking clients right now?

Unami Magwenzi 59:11
Yeah, so I have a website. It's called Hope lives. Dot live. So that's one way I have a an online Etsy store that's, it's called COVID treasures. Has to sell my Facebook product products, and that's where I'm going to put my online courses that I'm currently working on. Yes. So my business is called hopeless creations, and it's free from it's really more about doing the clinical side of things, Coaching for Business, fishing, women in business, and then the ebooks, the digital product side of things. So. I'm very passionate about two, two subjects. One is helping women just use their God given gifts. And, you know, just kind of rising up from wherever they are, bringing them up so that they can share themselves, share their gifts, but helping them. And that's where the Christian side of it comes in. And then because I'm passionate about so the online course I've been working on is called shedding shape and keeping it off. Journey through blockchain, and it's just really about all the time. I'm talking about shedding way done, but I'm like, No, let's shed the thing first, because once you do that, everything else will fall into place. So that's like, my big project that I'm really excited about.

Katy Weber 1:00:52
Oh, why am I not surprised that you have five businesses, right? I always, I always like to joke. We don't have hobbies, we have side businesses. Oh, that's wonderful. Shedding the shame. I love it. Yeah. It really speaks to, I think, a lot of that weight, like you said, that we carry as women, as mothers and as women with ADHD, especially, so beautiful. I will have that in the show notes. Thank you so much, UNAMI for sharing your story. And I guess everybody knows now, right? It's out there. This is it. It's out there. But I don't call it over sharing anymore, because I feel like there's, you know, there's no such thing as over sharing, you know, as far as I'm concerned, exactly right, yeah, but I think you know your vulnerability, the way you articulate some of these stories, I think a lot of listeners are really going to relate, and it's been a real pleasure meeting you and hearing your story. So thank you so much.

Unami Magwenzi 1:01:55
No thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time. And you know, yeah, it's great to I love conversation. I love questions. I love being asked questions. I love to talk. So great combination. So I really appreciate you. Thank you. I

Katy Weber 1:02:12
had what in being in school, I had one of my professors, because I'm in school to be a therapist, and so one of my professors said, you know, I'm really nosy. That's why I like being a therapist, because I'm so nosy. And I was like, I felt so validated. I was like, Oh, are we allowed to say that? Okay? Because that's exactly why I have my podcast. It's why I was a journalist. It's why I want to be a therapist. I'm just nosy.

Unami Magwenzi 1:02:36
Yeah, actually, the final thing that I know we gotta go, but the funny thing that's happened professionally for me is, ever since my diagnosis, I've been able to identify more women who are my clients, who are who actually having, like, just doing the screening, like, I'm a lot more aware, and so I'm doing more screening for that. And I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm seeing it. And even some of the clients that are connected differently with or they've always felt like there's just something about them, they all have ADP, yeah, so that's that's been interesting. I noticed

Katy Weber 1:03:12
that too. I've said, you know, and I've even said this to my professors too. I'm like, there is a there is a frustration there, that when, when clients come with if you're seeing their frustration in that they have a desire, but they're not able to follow through. That's not depression, that's frustration, and that is inherent in ADHD, right? It's not a lack of desire, it's an overwhelming desire, but the inability to follow through. And I'm like, if you that is like, that should be that red flag, right? If you're seeing that level of frustration, the what's wrong with me? That's such a key indicator of ADHD, and I, yeah, you see it. I see it everywhere now, and in my curriculum and my case studies and every I'm like, oh my goodness, it's everywhere. But yeah, right, it's, it's that frustration, yeah, oh my goodness. Okay, well, I was like, Okay, we're gonna start out another hour long conversation.

Speaker 2 1:04:06
I know exactly, like, yeah, there's a whole thing. Well, thank you again. It's been, it's been so

Katy Weber 1:04:12
lovely to meet you. And, yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank

Unami Magwenzi 1:04:15
you. And lovely podcast. It's so beautiful. I love the way we interview and give women opportunity to just share their heart. It's so free.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:22
So thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:23
Oh, thank you.

Katy Weber 1:04:31
There you have it. Thank you for listening, and I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the women and ADHD podcast. If you'd like to find out more about me and my coaching programs, head over to women and adhd.com if you're a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD and you'd like to apply to be a guest on this podcast, visit women and adhd.com/podcast guest, and you can find that link in the episode show notes. Also, you know, we ADHD ers crave feedback, and I would really appreciate hearing from you the listener. Please take a moment to. Me a review on Apple podcasts or audible. And if that feels like too much, and I totally get it, please just take a few seconds right now to give me a five star rating or share this episode on your own social media to help reach more women who maybe have yet to discover and lean into this gift of neurodivergency, and they may be struggling and they don't even know why. I'll see you next time when I interview another amazing woman who discovered she's not lazy or crazy or broken, but she has ADHD, and she's now on the path to understanding her neurodivergent mind and finally, using this gift to her advantage. Take care. Till then you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai