Sara Kelly: Mindset, self-confidence & neuroencoding

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Episode 138 with Sara Kelly

“The only reason this is a disability is because neurotypical standards are outside of what comes easy for us.”

Sara is an ADHD Mindset Coach from Vancouver. Despite studying mindfulness and trying countless coaching programs, she still couldn't find the inner peace and happiness she desired and struggled for years with depression, anxiety, and overwhelm. 

It wasn’t until she discovered she has ADHD and Autism that she realized traditional coaching programs with their 'just try harder' mentality wouldn't work for her, and that’s when her signature program, ADHD Mindset Mastery, was born.

We talk about how our mindsets shifted after an adult diagnosis, and how that has affected our self-esteem and self-confidence while reframing the way we view our strengths and our struggles.

⛔️ TRIGGER WARNING ⛔️ Brief talk of attempted suicide.

Website: linktr.ee/adhdmindsetmastery

Instagram: @adhdmindsetmastery

Enjoy!

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Katy Weber (she/her):
Hi, Sarah! Thanks so much for joining me!

Sara Kelly:
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Katy Weber (she/her):
So, you haven't been diagnosed that long, correct?

Sara Kelly:
No, it's been about three years now.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Okay, so that's longer than I thought. Okay, so I'd love to hear, you know, what was happening. It sounds like we were probably diagnosed around the same. I call myself a pandemic diagnosis. I don't know about you, but it sounds like, you know, what was happening in your life really that at the time where you started to put two and two together and think, okay, this is really starting to explain a lot.

Sara Kelly:
Oh yeah, so I mean for me it was, it's a pretty funny story, but ironic funny. I don't know, I find humor in all of this. My children both around. grade five, and my children are 17 and 24 now, so it was a minute ago, the teachers said that they thought they had ADHD, and I brushed it off because I have a cousin who has ADHD, and he was just off the chart with the impulsivity and just that class clown and that typical, you know, stereotypical six-year-old little boy that you think of, you know, just bouncing off the wall. So when they, teachers told me that they thought I completely brushed it off. And my children always had problems with relationships and being that too much rhetoric that you hear from a lot of kids who have ADHD. And so my daughter actually sought out formal diagnosis. And once she did, I started wanting to learn more about ADHD. And so I took a deep dive and started reading. And a lot of the boxes were checked. internally for the past probably five years before my diagnosis, I noticed that I was becoming really forgetful and you know conversations that were had that I should have remembered, I didn't remember you know the carelessness of you know forgetting my keys or double booking myself and so I really went inward with it and started thinking that I had early onset dementia or It was just something that internally I was like, oh my goodness of everything of anything to lose I don't want to lose who I am, you know my sense of self or memories that you know are so precious to me and So when I found out that I have ADHD I was hugely relieved in the beginning and Then I went through this mourning period of I've had so many jobs and I've had trouble too in Relationships and oh my goodness RSD like thank goodness it's a thing, but it really did destroy my psyche for a long time because I felt everything so big and my emotional dysregulation manifests as, you know, being a little bit more of a crybaby and holding onto things, not being able to let things go. So, you know, once I went through the, it's not all timers to, oh gosh, this is why my life was so hard, then it was, okay, if I can chalk this up to being about my ADHD. and not this deficit in who I am as a human being, but a neurological condition, it was actually a pretty big relief. And it got me starting to seek community with other ADHDers and any lifelong friendships I've had, which I've have a handful, all ADHD people.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Right?

Sara Kelly:
So it's kind of funny. Like we see each other just in a way, right? And it comes down to like validation. So, you know, I would, I've had a few careers. I've always been very career driven, hyper-focused on different fields in sales and mortgage brokering and then now ADHD mindset coaching. And a lot of friends who are neurotypical would almost judge me and make me feel that, oh, you're doing something else again, but you were so good at this. And of course, you know, I mean, but my ADHD friends, they're like, this is awesome. They're my cheerleaders. They were the ones pumping

Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kelly:
my tires when I was like, I want to try this new thing. I'm not sure. They're like, oh no, go for it. You're good at everything you do. So it's really neat how, you know, the binary that society has for neurotypical people, ADHDers really can feel outside of that at times. So yeah. actually don't even remember what your original question was. I went on a very, very much an ADHD tangent, so...

Katy Weber (she/her):
I really like the term pumping my tires. I don't think I've heard that before in terms of just supporting you, right? And it's true, you just reminded me of how tired I used to get of telling people what I was doing, right? Especially like my husband's family, nobody could keep up with what school I was in or what certification I was chasing or what job I was in. And there was sort of this like... inherent eye roll that I always felt or at least internalized around all of these different jobs and passions and and you know I always felt so much shame about the you know I've joked about this on the podcast this drawer I have of business cards that you know I would buy a whole box of business cards and maybe hand out five and then next thing I knew I was on to something else and felt like it felt like this this was this drawer of shame for me and now I'm like no all of these things have led to where I am today like um Yeah. Oh, wow. So, um, so, so how did it, how was that conversation with your daughter when she was diagnosed where you were sort of like, Oh gosh, cause you know, we talk a lot about the grief in our own life looking back

Sara Kelly:
Mmm.

Katy Weber (she/her):
and nobody knew, nobody saw the signs. Um, but what was it like sort of to go through that with your own life, but then also with your daughter and having that conversation about, gosh, like I had, you know, We didn't know, right? Like we just

Sara Kelly:
Yeah,

Katy Weber (she/her):
didn't know.

Sara Kelly:
it was really humbling because I, the guilt that I have over not knowing that my children have ADHD is that I supported the don't be too much rhetoric that so many of us struggle with growing up in adolescence. And so my daughter, she's just such a vivacious human being, she would be twirling around in the mall as a little girl. And I'd be like, calm down, calm down. And if I could take something back, that's what it would be. My father also has ADHD. It was never formally diagnosed, but he really did not handle his ADHD in a way that makes ADHDers proud to have ADHD. He was on the streets a lot and went to a life of drugs. So I mean, literally my childhood was the blind leading the blind, and then having two children with ADHD and not knowing how to parent, because I was never given the opportunity to be around good role models. It was chaos. So I mean, the emotional dysregulation and me flying off the handle and maybe raising my voice the not letting go of things, the trying to make my children fit into a binary that wasn't natural to them. I hold a lot of guilt around that. And so now, moving forward, I validate, and I just remind them every day that although I did the best that I could, I really got it wrong. And you know, knowledge is power. And I just think my daughter, especially she's a little bit older, is so amazing. She's done so much therapy. She's embraced treating her ADHD. And she is going to break the cycle of the generational trauma of undiagnosed ADHD. Because whenever she decides to have children, she just has so much more in her toolbox than I ever had. And I just really admire and respect that.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Hmm. Yeah, that's so well said. Yeah. My daughter is only 16, but I so appreciate how she approaches things without shame. And so, right. And so I do have to take some credit for that as her parent, um, just, you know, in, in the way that we are disrupting these, um, these cycles. But I think also just like, I'm so ex she teaches me so much, right. And I'm, you know, I think it just brings, I think this whole self identity journey with with ADHD diagnosis is just, I feel like, um, you know, there is a lot of that, like grace and forgiveness that we have to have not only with each other, but with ourselves. And I just so appreciate how much my daughter like calls me out on things. Uh, you

Sara Kelly:
Yeah.

Katy Weber (she/her):
know, she's like, tells me I'm sounding too much like a boomer or something like, like I just, I love one of the one of the dynamics I love about parenting as my kids get older is how reciprocal that relationship is. Right. Um, because for so long, when they're younger, it's, it's so, it's so much more top down and I don't know, I really love it. And I'm kind of grateful for being. I think that being near neurodivergent allows us to really have a lot more, um, flexibility and open-minded. And it, like, I think a lot of our natural curiosity really. benefits us as parents where we are able to really kind of see things from fresh perspectives and Adapt and in ways that I think are so beneficial for our children I just think ADHD people are like such fantastic parents if we can believe it in ourselves

Sara Kelly:
Yeah, and that's really where my whole life journey has taken me as just always struggling with. my own self-concept and second guessing myself and just knowing that now that I know that I have ADHD, I can't necessarily control the executive dysfunctions that come, I mean I can do things like diet and medication and cold shower therapy and there's a ton of things that you can do to try to mitigate the isms of ADHD that aren't as sexy. But it just really comes down to, especially with our kids, I do, I admire this next generation so much. I think, you know, the boomers, whether or not they're getting a bad rap right now, it kind of seems to be the case, just with how narrow-minded, you know, the mental health field was at the time. And then we're that kind of generation that had to pay for it, but also needs to wake up a little bit. And then our kids, they get it. And I just, I love the way the young people are taking us because I really think that they are pioneering that's really going to give us that finality to that shift with mental health and being okay within your own skin and you know not seeing ADHD as this deficit of who you are as a human being and what you bring to the table but what you can be that's outside of the neurotypical bionic bionic yeah

Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah. Oh, I know, right. I feel like my children wear their diagnosis with a badge of honor. And again, I sort of feel like I have to take some credit for that in terms of how the conversation, you know, how we talk about ADHD. And I'm certainly not, you know, um, uh, ADHD is a superpower kind of person, but I think we talk about it. Like it is something fantastic too, that also, you know, needs a lot of support and management and understanding. And like you said, information is power. Now, your

Sara Kelly:
Mm.

Katy Weber (she/her):
son is also diagnosed, I take it.

Sara Kelly:
Yep.

Katy Weber (she/her):
And he's at a really like pivotal stage too, right? Is he going to university or?

Sara Kelly:
He just graduated. He had an early graduation in January and we're going to be going to his grad here in the next couple of weeks. He's really come into his own in the past year with, you know, working and a really nice girlfriend. And I think that something that ADHDers can fall into that maybe isn't always good is we have this innate desire to be accepted. person who he's chosen to spend his time with currently is someone who's a really good influence and you know I think it's helped him grow as a person being around someone who's a really hard worker and also neurodivergent and so yeah I mean it's been really really good but you know the teenage years are hard for ADHDers because the hormones are racing and the emotional dysregulation is a thing right so I think puberty really hits ADHDers harder also periometa-pause And that's kind of when you're like, oh yeah, hello ADHD. Time to do a little bit more meditating and a little bit more self care because it's a lot to manage when you're not practicing mindfulness and you're not, you know, able to step back and take perspective.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Well, I think it's such a hard age too, because there's so, you know, having an interest based nervous system, like there's so, you're so, um, you know, you're so torn torn between what you want to do and what you should do. Right. And there's so many overwhelming shoulds, uh, as you enter into adulthood of all these things, where it's like, if you don't take this path, you're going to ruin your life, right? Like there's, there's such a sense of, of bigness to a lot of decisions at that age that I remember just. feeling so overwhelmed and obviously was not, you know, had no idea anything about ADHD at the time, but just like, you know, just in terms of, I dropped out of university like, and because I, you know, I was like, why am I here? Like all of those really big questions about why am I doing stuff? I think when you are, when you are neurodivergent, like you really have to connect deeply with your why. And that's really hard when you're young, right? Like who knows? Uh, I don't know why I'm doing a lot of the things when I was when I was that age.

Sara Kelly:
Yeah, I think that's why like when we are, you know, trying to encourage our kids to connect with their why, you know, the second layer to that is your why doesn't have to stay where it is. You're you're allowed to pivot.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kelly:
I mean, I've had many different jobs and now where I'm sitting where I'm where I am, I can see how each one of them gave me a certain aspect of strength to what I'm doing right now. Part of that is just even talking to you. I have tremendous social anxiety. I'm actually also on the autism spectrum disorder. And so doing these kinds of things and, you know, my, my time in real estate, for example, it really forced me to step out of my comfort zone and start being more personable because I have like this innate desire to be sociable. But then I also have this anxiety that pairs with it for like, but I don't really want to put myself up. I do, but I don't. It's this tug of war that I play with. myself.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah, right. I think a lot of us have that, you know, we talk a lot about the am I an introvert? Am I an extrovert question? Because there are some situations where I feel absolutely extroverted in the fact that I love interviewing new people, right? Like I love meeting you and having this podcast and having all of these experiences where I feel so fulfilled and so nourished by other people. But then at the same time, so many social situations that give me like intense anxiety and Um, and feeling very much like, uh, you know, the grocery stores and running into people and all of the, you know, um, every time I phone rings, like all of these weird random situations where I'm like, where do I put that in terms of my relationships? Uh, I don't know, buffet, but,

Sara Kelly:
Hahaha

Katy Weber (she/her):
uh, no, no, were you diagnosed with autism at the same time as ADHD or what was, or was that

Sara Kelly:
No,

Katy Weber (she/her):
a later?

Sara Kelly:
just about six months ago, I went through Embrace Autism. to pay for a private diagnosis just because, I mean, my whole mission is just to understand myself more. And I started, you know, on LinkedIn, that's kind of where my biggest following is at the moment. I, you know, started noticing a lot of people have autism and ADHD and reading posts and going, oh, well, I mean, I kind of have that too. And it's interesting. I don't know as much about autism as I know about ADHD, but it's interesting that people who are ADHD, the ADHD fights the autism. It's very strange. So I'll have an ism about me and I'm like, okay, is this an ADHD thing? Is this an autism thing? Is this a nurture thing?

Katy Weber (she/her):
Is this

Sara Kelly:
It's,

Katy Weber (she/her):
a menopause

Sara Kelly:
it's,

Katy Weber (she/her):
thing? Is this

Sara Kelly:
is this a,

Katy Weber (she/her):
an

Sara Kelly:
yeah,

Katy Weber (she/her):
angry

Sara Kelly:
exactly.

Katy Weber (she/her):
feminist

Sara Kelly:
Yeah.

Katy Weber (she/her):
thing? Is that right? I feel like that's, this whole podcast is me being like, what is this? What are we talking about here?

Sara Kelly:
Absolutely.

Katy Weber (she/her):
But you're right, there are so many ways in which these paradoxes, especially around need for structure and demand avoidance and, you know, demand avoidance versus. accountability and like all of those ways in which we are just so chaotic inside.

Sara Kelly:
Yeah.

Katy Weber (she/her):
And you know, actually one of the ones that I think leads to, you know, so many of us, especially so many Audi HD, so many of us are pre diagnosed well ahead of our diagnoses with depression and anxiety. Right. And so I

Sara Kelly:
Mm-hmm.

Katy Weber (she/her):
think, you know, one of the things, themes I explore a lot in this podcast too, because my own life was self-esteem. and, um, and anxiety and depression and like, was I depressed? What caused the depression was, you know, I feel like very angry sometimes at how clinicians often talk about depression and anxiety. Like they just exist and like, you just sort of caught them. Like you caught a cold, like they don't really have a lot of curiosity as to what's the underlying, you know, um, trauma behind some of this stuff. And as we, so many of us have traumatic pasts, um, And so where does that fit in with, with our behaviors and our traits? Um, I'm getting off topic. Sorry. So anyway, but one of the things when we were talking about paradoxes was, um, this feeling of like, I often felt, and I would often talk about this with my therapist, like I can't decide if I have high self-esteem or low self-esteem because many times I would feel like a perfectionist. I was very much like, I need to be the one in charge. I have to do everything. Um, And I'm the only one who can do this. And I'm smart, you know, honestly, just smarter than everyone else. Like I always felt like I was smarter than people, but at the same time, also feeling very, very dumb and feeling very much like I like, we talk about like feeling like I'm asking and that people don't, you know, that I'm fooling people. Um, and I never could really put my finger on what that was. Uh, and she was always sort of. you know, we would talk about the difference between self esteem and maybe like self respect or dignity, but I feel like it's a concept. A lot of us seem to have shared before our diagnoses, which is this like real, um, dual personality, the split personality between like, am I really, really smart or am I really, really dumb? And how do I, how do I relate to people around me?

Sara Kelly:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that was one of my biggest paradigms. you know, years ago, especially my 30s before I went to university, was this paradigm that I wasn't smart enough. I always struggled in school. I've never been diagnosed with dyslexia or dyscalculia, but I have definitely struggled in learning and in learning environments and how they're structured and really, you know, starting to challenge those blanket statements. And I think that's something that a lot of ADHDers fall into is we live in our heads a lot and we really do make these grandiose. blanket statement and that can keep us stuck. And that's where, you know, we really need to, you know... The emotional part of our brain is beautiful because we're highly empathetic and all of the things, but then also the emotional part of our brain really gets us in trouble because we can ruminate on the negative. We do have a tendency to be more rigid in our thinking and and how we see the world. And then that leads to missed opportunities and lower self-esteem and and all of the things. Right. So I can totally relate to everything you're saying. Like, I don't know if this is being videotaped or we're going to be on a screen somewhere. you talk I'm just like nodding yes yes yes yes oh my gosh yes and I absolutely struggled with anxiety and depression for you know most of my adult life and and I still fall into that very very easily if I'm not careful and I had a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol for a long time so to learn after I had ADHD that you know women with ADHD have a 13 percent more likely to learn that because it was something that once my alcohol addiction was no longer controlling my life, I could step back and give myself some grace. And I think that that's something that so many people with ADHD struggle with is giving themselves grace and realizing that ADHD, whether you want to call it a superpower or not, is a neurological condition that's highly hereditary and it is a disability. You know, you don't have to walk around like you're disabled and wear this, Oh my goodness, like I have ADHD. So I need a hall pass for all the things. But at the end of the day, it is a disability. And the only reason it's a disability is because the neurotypical standard is outside of what comes easy for us. And I think that if society was all neurodivergent, then the neurotypicals would have a disability. And that's where podcasts like yours and what you're doing and spreading the word of ADHD and normalizing it, humanizing it for so many specifically women who are late diagnosed, can make us feel like we're not alone on this island anymore. If I spent my entire life feeling like I was the only one who was too much or not enough or lazy or everything in between. It's no wonder that so many people with ADHD struggle with anxiety and depression when they're constantly being told this about you and this about you and this about you and I'm sure that you know this stat and if I have it wrong please correct me by age 10 the average child with ADHD has heard 20 000 pieces of negative feedback and I can attest from my own childhood and the parent teacher interviews that I went to for my kids that that's true that's 100 bang on true I mean I don't know if the number is accurate but we do hear a lot more so how does that affect our psyche You know, it's not it's so natural to me that so many of us would have depression and anxiety depression because we're sick of being put down and we're believing it and anxiety because we're scared to speak up because every time we do we're being judged or pointed at I mean, of course, I'm being grandiose and saying this but It just makes sense to me. It totally makes sense to me. And I'm, I obviously don't understand neuroscience, but I mean, one plus one equals two is that to me that it just really makes sense.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah. The other thing that was really eye-opening to me was the concept of the default mode network too, and just how much we focus on the negative, um, because it's more interesting. It's literally more interesting for our brains and how difficult it is for us to like celebrate, uh, wins, right? Because we're always moving on to the next win. The, the win for us is in the struggle is in the pushing the boulder up the hill. The win is never. celebration after the fact. And so because we spend so little time in reflection and celebration mode, you know, I think it also speaks to how many of us are, are chronically depressed as a result.

Sara Kelly:
Yeah.

Katy Weber (she/her):
And that was really fascinating to me. It was just that idea that like focusing on the negative is quite simply more interesting for us. And, and I think that's really, uh, influenced, certainly influenced kind of my way of thinking. Um, and how I actively have to think about what is good in my life and what I'm grateful for and what I bring to the table and all of those things. I'm not, it's not going to naturally come to me. I have to work at it like anything else.

Sara Kelly:
Mm-hmm, absolutely. It's a muscle you have to practice, right? That's the essence of neuroplasticity is your brain is going to take the path of least resistance and drama produces just as much dopamine as anything else. And that is, I think, definitely why we go to that is because we're chasing that dopamine constantly and

Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm-hmm.

Sara Kelly:
we don't care where we get it from. I mean,

Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah,

Sara Kelly:
we do,

Katy Weber (she/her):
right.

Sara Kelly:
but subconsciously we don't. Right? We do.

Katy Weber (she/her):
No, I'm fascinated about neuro-encoding. That's something I hadn't heard of and you are a specialist in that. So can you tell me a little bit more about what neuro-encoding is and, and how that combines with your own approach to coaching?

Sara Kelly:
It was just developed as a form of... neuroplasticity for someone like a life coach to be able to take. So it's a very short program. I don't know if it's an accredited program, like an ICF designation. I also have a life and health coaching certificate. Um, but basically it just kind of breaks down how, you know, whatever you're focusing on the most expands. And so neuro-encoding teaches, you know, certain pillars to focus on so that you can move that needle in the right direction, because I'm a firm believer. that there's so many things with ADHD that we can't fully control. But one thing that we can practice and learn how to control is how we perceive things. And the example that I use often with, you know, my clients or just in conversation is if you've ever seen a fly trying to get out of a window, and from where you're sitting, you can see that there's an opening to get out of the window if that fly would just back up a little bit. And yet it's batting. its body against the window and it cannot get out and it's tirelessly trying to get out. And so if we try to make a parody to that, say rejection sensitivity dysphoria or emotional dysregulation. our brain doesn't have the default button to back up and take perspective. And that's why practicing mindfulness is so important because, you know, impulsivity is something that we struggle with, you know, so I don't know about you, but I've definitely had RSD moments and then sent a message and been like, oh, crap, why did I do that? I really jumped the gun. You know, I got really sensitive. And so, you know, learning about things like the power of the pause and S is what I call it. You know, other people. will have different names for it is just, okay, before something happens where you're reactive, take 24 hour space. And that forces us, instead of going to our default, we wanna be reactive because we do struggle with impulsivity to step back, to see if there's another point of view, but we need to take that space. And practicing mindfulness is... when your default wants you to do something, but you're able to stop and be present enough to say, okay, I cannot go to this default reaction right now. I need to take a little bit of perspective. So long answer, short, it's really just about learning. what we focus on expands, whatever it is. And the only way to really see other ways out of things for us as ADHDers is to stop and think about it for a minute first. And that's something that's very teachable.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah, I was just gonna say it's very, it is teachable. It's also not naturally something we're

Sara Kelly:
No.

Katy Weber (she/her):
good at. Paying attention is not something we're very good at. Um, yeah, you know, it really is. I always feel, and I'm sure you get this as an ADHD coach too, right? I feel like so many of my clients are like, I was diagnosed. Now I know what's wrong with me. Fix me. Right. And, and you know, my job is to really unpack that and like, okay, I'm like, there's nothing to fix, right? Like this is really

Sara Kelly:
No.

Katy Weber (she/her):
about how we are able to reframe. who we are and in, in how we live in the world. And, and, and, you know, and sometimes I feel like people will be like, well, it's easy for you to say, you know, you've got it all together and you figured it all out and I'm a hot mess. And I'm like, no, we're all hot messes. I don't have it, you know, I'm like, it's, there's no secret sauce that's out there. That's like, oh, you know, I, and, and, and it really bothers me when there are ADHD coaches out there who- of play up that rhetoric that it's like, you know, work with me and I'm going to reveal this secret strategy that we all know that you don't know. Right. Because I think it's really like, it really praise on that mindset that so many of us have had our whole life, which is the, the answers out there, the answers at the next, at the end of the next self-help book, right? The answer is like at the end of this course. And I really like rail against that idea that there's some secret, uh, solution out there that, uh, you know, But at the same time, um, do feel like, you know, if there is a secret sauce, it is how we are able to kind of step back and reframe a lot of how we thought we viewed life and, and why this diagnosis can be so incredibly transfer transformative for so many of us. It's not that there's some secret, um, you know, that there's not some secret. planner out there that we all get when we get our diagnosis that makes

Sara Kelly:
Yeah.

Katy Weber (she/her):
us no longer a shit show. But it's the fact that it's like, yeah, I am a shit show. So what, right? Like, you know, what am I, what am I going to do with that information? I think it's the next step.

Sara Kelly:
Right. And you know, just the acceptance, like, okay, so, you know, and I just love that you say shit show, because I have said that about myself.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Ha ha

Sara Kelly:
But

Katy Weber (she/her):
ha ha!

Sara Kelly:
what is the standard of a shit show? Like, where the the neurotypical peanut gallery really, you know, has defined that because I do something in a certain way, I'm a shit show.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm.

Sara Kelly:
I think I'm brave. I think that I'm creative. I think that the mistakes that I've made and me still standing here and not on the floor shows that I'm resilient. I've been through a lot of things and probably a little bit more than the average person because I have a lot of childhood trauma and a dual diagnosis on top of it, but I'm still standing. I don't have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol anymore. I am okay not being liked or accepted. If I'm too much for you, go find less. I can't remember who said that, some TikTok, Alyssa something. You know, like that is okay. I'm okay now not having everyone like me. My true fans, the people who get me and appreciate me, I'd way rather have a group of five or 10 really, really close people who see me and accept me. than to be the most popular girl in the world and have them all snickering behind my back, but I'm oblivious to it.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah,

Sara Kelly:
I think that might be a getting old thing as well.

Katy Weber (she/her):
yeah.

Sara Kelly:
A

Katy Weber (she/her):
Right,

Sara Kelly:
lot more

Katy Weber (she/her):
well,

Sara Kelly:
comfortable in my skin.

Katy Weber (she/her):
and I do think that that's probably why many women are diagnosed at a certain age, right? As we are kind of approaching perimenopause. And you know, sometimes it's the catalyst is typing in like early onset dementia into Google and then starting the journey that way. But I think there is something to be said about just like reaching that age where you're just like, I don't give a shit anymore. Like I don't, I'm sorry, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not masking. I'm not living by anyone else's rules. Like I think we do reach that metaphorical breaking point. Um, you know, in our forties, if, if we're, you know, hopefully we reach it in our twenties, like your daughter did, but in some ways, you know, um, I think a lot of us do come to our diagnosis from that fee of just that. Like, I'm not, I can't do it anymore. I'm not doing it anymore. Um, so yeah.

Sara Kelly:
Absolutely.

Katy Weber (she/her):
It was Elise Myers too, by the way.

Sara Kelly:
Elise Myers, oh

Katy Weber (she/her):
It

Sara Kelly:
my

Katy Weber (she/her):
just

Sara Kelly:
goodness,

Katy Weber (she/her):
occurred to me.

Sara Kelly:
I just

Katy Weber (she/her):
I

Sara Kelly:
love

Katy Weber (she/her):
know,

Sara Kelly:
her.

Katy Weber (she/her):
she's amazing. Oh my god, she's amazing. She would be my dream guest. But she looks like she's a little busy.

Sara Kelly:
If ever I blow up, which I don't plan on it, and I have a connection to her, I'll make sure she comes your way 100%.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Thank you. I appreciate that, Sarah. Um, so now I mean, gosh, what do I want to ask now? I'm, I'd love to know kind of how you got into ADHD coaching. Cause I assume you were a coach before your diagnosis. That's what I had. I sort of pivoted from health coaching into ADHD coaching as I, you know, realize how interconnected they all were. Um, but I'd love to know a little bit more about your business and, and the mindset coaching. I know you have a, um, uh, Master, Mastery course, right?

Sara Kelly:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, for me, it's very much. My story, I struggled with anxiety and depression for so many years. And so I am that ADHDer who took that deep dive into learning about mindfulness, everything from the esoteric type teachings, like Eckhart Tolle and, you know, Alan Watts to, you know, Tony Robbins and, you know, Jay Shetty and all of, all of the things. And I really just found that mainstream mindfulness, which is obviously such a blanket even term to use is very ableist to an ADHD-er. It is absolutely true that happiness from within needs to happen before all the good things happen before you know, because we're all horses with blinders on and whatever we believe and think is going to expand. And so when I took this deep dive, I'm like, geez, you know, they're telling me to just be happy and everything else will come together, but I'm on the floor. Like, how do I get from A to B? Because it seems impossible. You know, visualization. I actually have anphantasia, so I cannot visualize. I close my eyes and I see black. That was very frustrating to me. And so when I took my coaching credentials for the life and the health coaching certificate, I found that the coaching practices that they were teaching me were very much the same. And I'm like, it's still not hitting the mark for me. So when I decided to move into ADHD mindset coaching, and I don't have an ADHD coaching certificate specifically, but I'm not an executive function coach, I'm a mindset coach, I started out by interviewing 60 women. And then I reverse engineered the process based on what I know from my coaching practice to all of the books that I read and to my own experience as someone who struggled so much with anxiety and depression for so many years. engineering it based on my own experience and the experience of the 60 women who I interviewed. And we absolutely can go from being on the floor to confident and happy and self-assured, but our brains are different. We need content that is more interesting and shorter. Another thing that is really important in my program, I'm sure you do similar things in your practice, is I use a lot of worksheets because our brains, because of our ADHD and our executive dysfunction, to take perspective on things. And so I love pen to paper. So for example, one aspect of my program is a paradigm makeover where you write down your biggest blanket statement. Mine happened to be, I'm not smart because I didn't do well in school. And then you really challenge that by disproving that theory with all the evidence of the things that. did make me smart. And right there, that was an opportunity for me to get out of my emotional brain and to use a little bit of logic, and it'd be the autism in me, I very much like systems and processes, to write that down. And so when I was able to do that for myself, to see that yes, my default is definitely still anxiety and depression, it's very easy for me to fall into. I had 35 years of it, it's super easy to be negative. But I knew that if I could figure out an ADHD friendly way to get myself out of that funk, that other women were struggling with it as well and I could get them out of that funk. And it all comes down to the BS that we tell ourselves. We absolutely have the executive dysfunction. We absolutely are never going to be doing backflips or we're doing our taxes or the dishes or whatever our thing is that we are running away from. But then there's this extra layer that we add to it when we start beating ourselves up. And so my job as an ADHD coach and my purpose is, you know, to teach people that you don't have to beat yourself up. You don't have to feel bad because you have ADHD and adopting this mindset of progress over perfection, as long as you're moving the needle in the right direction. Now all of a sudden you're just dealing with the executive dysfunctions. Okay, so let's figure out some open organization for you. Let's figure out how to take a grandiose task and maybe reverse engineer it or break it into small pieces or use a pomodoro technique or you know whatever else, the 30 minute time block technique or whatever else to get the stuff done. But at least you don't have that layer of I'm not good enough, I'm too much, I'm lazy, nobody likes me, I don't like myself, I'm going to screw this up again, because the bullshit that we tell ourselves adds an extra layer to keep us stuck. And so I very much wanted to create something because I knew it worked for me after so many years of alcoholism and debilitating depression and even at times, you know, not wanting to be here ideology. I've done, I've been, I've been in the hole. I've been in the hole. I've Even in my 20s, I had a suicide attempt and had to get my stomach pumped. Like I've been in the hole and women don't have to suffer like this. Like we don't. We don't have to suffer like this and we don't have to continue to lie to ourselves but you don't know what you don't know until someone shows you that you don't know it. And so I'm so passionate about this. I'm so,

Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm.

Sara Kelly:
so passionate about this because we're never gonna fix the chemistry of our brain, our delay in our prefrontal cortex, our enlarged amygdala and all of the other fancy words that I could try and mispronounce, but we can fix and we can work on and we can nurture how we see ourselves and how we accept ourselves. And that absolutely by default changes your stance of how you show up in the world. Because people who don't have a high self-esteem, they don't put themselves out there. They have that Eeyore energy. People who have a high self-esteem and have self-love, they walk through the world with their shoulders back and their head up. And from an energetic perspective, you're going to attract a whole different life for yourself. just by feeling better about yourself.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah, and that's one of the things I love about Sarie Saldon's work and how it was, you know, so transformative for me was just this, this simple statement that you know you are worthy of support you know and I think that we get so wrapped up and feeling like we have to figure everything out ourselves and we have to do everything ourselves and that by the time we ask for help asking for help is somehow an admission of failure or it's giving up or it means that we have you know that we are terrible um And it's quite the opposite, you know, like asking for help is sort of like the first thing I go to now. I'm like, how can I, if there's something I don't want to do or something I'm struggling with, I'm like, who could I get to do this for me? Who can I get to do this with me? Like asking for help is, is absolutely, um, you know, something I can do without shame now. And I think that that was a huge shift for me. Thanks. Uh, and I credit Sari Saldon's work for that in terms of just really being, you know, being drilled into my head that like you can be a phenomenal human being and also need a lot of support. And that's where I think looking at ADHD as a disability can be really helpful, which is like, I am worthy of support and I really need to ask for it because this is not something I should do on my own or can do on my own.

Sara Kelly:
Yeah. And I feel like that's also a perfect example of, you know, you being a person in general, being more self-assured, that is an element of having a higher self-esteem is being okay with the fact that you might have some blind spots that you might need a little bit of guidance with. But when you're stuck, And you're not self-assured, you're struggling with your self-esteem. You're adding that whole extra layer of friction because it's like, well, now if I ask for support, what if I'm judged? What if that makes me less than in the world? It can almost make you a little bit more meek. And I love her as well. She's amazing. Yeah.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah. Uh, so if you could rename ADHD to something else, do you have a, do you know what you would call

Sara Kelly:
Oh

Katy Weber (she/her):
it?

Sara Kelly:
my goodness. I yeah, I love this.

Katy Weber (she/her):
You knew this was coming.

Sara Kelly:
I knew this was coming. And a few months ago on LinkedIn, I did a post with let's rename the acronym ADHD. So in keeping with the same acronym, mine is adventurous, dynamic, hero like and diligent.

Katy Weber (she/her):
That's awesome. You know, I love, I love what we can still keep the same acronym because it'll be so much easier to Google and though we don't have to remember a new name.

Sara Kelly:
Hehehehe

Katy Weber (she/her):
So, which is always my issue with fast. So, oh, that's awesome. I love that. Now you'll have to send me a link to it or I'll look it up. I'll put that in this episode show notes, the LinkedIn post and I'll definitely put a link. I'll definitely put a. linked to your LinkedIn account because it does you seems like that's where you're most active but where where can people find you and work with you and get more you also have a YouTube channel right?

Sara Kelly:
I do. I just started a YouTube channel. That's been really, really a neat experience and learning all of the, you know, back end optimization with YouTube. So on YouTube, I'm Sarah Kelly, ADHD mindset coach. And on LinkedIn, I am just Sarah Kelly. And my website is www.adhdmastery.com. And the website leads to a link to sign up to a complimentary masterclass that talks about the five pillars to creating lasting change. And at the end of that masterclass, there is an opportunity to book a complimentary call with me to see if we would be a good fit for each other. My program is a six week program six weeks with a lifetime membership. a supportive Facebook group and weekly group coaching calls. And the reason that I've taken that route rather than the one-on-one coaching is for one, to protect my energy. I cannot be talking to 10 people a day and keep my energy intact. And then the other reason is the ebbs and flows of life do not care about a six week program and it ending and you being booted out. And so I have a lifetime program when my students are doing well Calls, great, but if six months later some RSD comes and bites you in the butt and you need a little bit of support and some perspective to be given, then I'm still around.

Katy Weber (she/her):
Um, that's awesome. I love that you have, um, kind of articulated that because I find, um, the, I find the group, I find the group dynamic for, especially with ADHD coaching is just magical. And I, you know, I love one-on-one coaching as well, but you're right there. It's, it's a totally different type of energy. And, um, yeah, I would love, I love spending time in small group, um, in small group work. Um, so yeah. Anyway, thank you so much, Sarah. It was lovely to hear your story and yeah, definitely make sure everybody can find all the links in the show notes to work with you and find out more about you and watch some of your awesome videos. But thank you so much.

Sara Kelly:
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this.