María-Victoria Albina: People pleasing, codependency & emotional outsourcing
May 29, 2023
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Episode 139 with María-Victoria Albina.
“I'm a ‘get it done now or put it in a doom box and forget about it forever’ kind of gal.”
María-Victoria is a Functional Medicine Nurse Practitioner, a Somatic Master Life Coach, and the host of the popular Feminist Wellness podcast.
She describes her narrative as the typical “kid with ADHD” story. As a child, she was in the gifted & talented program but always getting in trouble because of “behavioral issues.” It wasn’t until she was falling behind in grad school that she was diagnosed, and like so many others say, she finally understood her non-linear thinking habits.
We talk about her winding career path from midwife to herbalist to nurse practitioner to somatic life coach & meditation guide. We also discuss somatic practices and how they can support ADHD adults when it comes to regulating our nervous systems and reconnecting with our intuition.
Website: victoriaalbina.com
Instagram: @victoriaalbinawellness
Additional Links:
Free meditations:
https://victoriaalbina.com/womenandadhd
Workshop: Polyvagal 101 & Nervous System Mapping
https://victoriaalbina.com/polyvagalworkshop/
Books & Articles mentioned:
Washington Post Opinion piece: “ADHD is an illness, not a lifestyle. Don’t punish people for it.”
Enjoy!
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Katy Weber (she/her):
All right. Oh, Maria Victoria. I'm so, I know I say this every week, but I'm so excited. I have so many questions.
María-Victoria:
I'm sorry.
Katy Weber (she/her):
And I love the work you're doing. And I feel like you're all of the work that you're doing just reads. It's so ADHD, right? With like all of these certifications and all of the
María-Victoria:
I'm sorry.
Katy Weber (she/her):
stuff like this. Patchwork of knowledge and experience that we bring to our work.
María-Victoria:
Oh,
Katy Weber (she/her):
And you're like, how
María-Victoria:
yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
do I include it all? And how do I get it all out there? And I love it because it's just dizzying. And I think it's fantastic. So. Let's,
María-Victoria:
Thank
Katy Weber (she/her):
but
María-Victoria:
you.
Katy Weber (she/her):
let's start where, where I always like to start, which is when you were diagnosed with ADHD. So I believe you, it was in grad school, right?
María-Victoria:
It was in grad school. Yeah. Yeah, I just realized, I remember, so I went to Oberlin undergrad. So like we studied, but like we didn't like grad school study, do you know what I'm talking about?
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yes.
María-Victoria:
And like maybe the kids in the science department are like math or whatever, but I still, Latin American studies and studio art, I didn't like. You're picking up what mama's putting down here, right? Like, I'm gonna go make a silk screen about a dictatorship. Like, I didn't. And then I got this grad school, and people did this thing, I don't know if you've heard about it, but it's called Sitting Still for Hours. I
Katy Weber (she/her):
Okay.
María-Victoria:
exactly that's the face I made to of like, what in the what are you? I don't under what? And I was working the student health center and I like casually said to one of the NPS, like, I'm very confused by how, like, all these people can just like study stuff they're not interested in. Right. But like my psychology class, I was like getting an A plus. I was always I was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like hyper focus because
Katy Weber (she/her):
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
María-Victoria:
but like, physics, chemistry? What? How? And so I said this to her, she was like, Yeah, you know, that's like, that's like a thing, right? And I was like, wait, what's a what? She's like,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Uh!
María-Victoria:
I've been kind of watching you the last couple months you've been here working, right? And like as we give you different tasks, you're like hyper focused or wait, what? And I think you should maybe see the school psychologist and just like, I don't know, casually find out if maybe you have an ADHD. And I was like, is that an STI? No, I knew what it was because we all knew what it was. But like, but I'm from the time before it was a thing also. You know what I mean?
Katy Weber (she/her):
Well, I've always said I was like, I was kind of insulted when my therapist suggested it to me because I
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
was like, really? You think that low? Like I had such a preconception and stigma
María-Victoria:
Sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
around what it was that
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I thought she was essentially telling me, you know, that you are a screw up, right? Like it was, that was sort of how I viewed it, which was,
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and so my first reaction was always to be sort of like, really? You think that poorly of me that you think I have ADHD? And now I'm like, ADHD,
María-Victoria:
Oh,
Katy Weber (she/her):
yeah. Yeah. So.
María-Victoria:
champion. No, I get that. I mean, I think for me, it was both like this reification of my really painful narrative that I was a spaz, which like I'm from the 90s, that's a word, right? Like, oh, you're such a spaz. And with this tinge of like, oh, maybe it's maybe I'm maybe it's not me. Maybe it's my brain. Like there was like a weak limber of hope in it while. Yeah, definitely feeling pejorative and definitely feeling shitty and like, oh, you really think I just my brain's broken. Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah,
María-Victoria:
but
Katy Weber (she/her):
interesting.
María-Victoria:
I was a lousy feeling, actually, like when I zoom back to it. Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
It's like you've recognized, I think this is actually pretty topical too around codependency, right? Which
María-Victoria:
Totally.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I wanna talk about later, but
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
this
María-Victoria:
for
Katy Weber (she/her):
idea
María-Victoria:
sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
that it's like you've seen past my mask, right? You've seen past this facade that I work for and you've recognized something in me that
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I've been trying to
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
work
María-Victoria:
Trying
Katy Weber (she/her):
past
María-Victoria:
to hide.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and trying to hide,
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
right? And so that does feel really vulnerable.
María-Victoria:
really vulnerable and is like scary in this almost existential threat way, because it's like, well, if you saw through it, who else saw through it? And like, am I like, the emperor has no clothes now? Like I am
Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm-hmm.
María-Victoria:
fully decloaked here, right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah. Yeah. So now, okay. So then, so she suggested you look into it and then what, what, what was happened next.
María-Victoria:
I'm a Leo and I'm a like, either get it done or completely forget about it forever and put it in a doom box kind of gal. So I marched upstairs and knocked on the psychologist's door and was like, hi, so do you think I have an ADHD? And she was like, why don't you sit down?
Katy Weber (she/her):
I like how you say it like it is an STD. Like, do I?
María-Victoria:
Right? Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
I feel, I think I caught an ADHD.
María-Victoria:
I caught an ADHD! Maybe! I mean, you know, it was co- you know, you know how grad school is. You're in your 20s, you're feeling a little loose, you're in multiple study groups, and... Um, yeah, yeah, so we did all the like, I feel like it was like 600 hours of testing, but am I making that up? Like I, I don't really remember, I remember sitting in her office and feeling incredibly uncomfortable. God, brains are amazing. I remember it was hot and like my legs in shorts sticking to her couch, like there was like a leatherette chair, but I don't remember the middle of it. What are brains?
Katy Weber (she/her):
I know,
María-Victoria:
Fascinating.
Katy Weber (she/her):
right? It is
María-Victoria:
Fascinating.
Katy Weber (she/her):
fascinating. I always say that about books too, where I'm like,
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I cannot tell you anything about a book I've read, but I can tell you if I liked it, I can
María-Victoria:
Sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
tell you when I read it.
María-Victoria:
Great.
Katy Weber (she/her):
There's like
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
all of these ancillary facts I can tell
María-Victoria:
Sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
you, but don't ask me about the plot.
María-Victoria:
Yeah, who needs plots?
Katy Weber (she/her):
It's so funny, I went to a school, I went to a university in Ontario that was known for pre-med, right? So all the students
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
on my floor in my dorm. were all like doing or go
María-Victoria:
Mm-hmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and they were all like serious students. And I was the only person on my floor who was in the humanities. And I was always the one who was like ready to party at the drop of the hat where it was
María-Victoria:
at
Katy Weber (she/her):
like,
María-Victoria:
the drop of any color hat. Yes,
Katy Weber (she/her):
and
María-Victoria:
any
Katy Weber (she/her):
so
María-Victoria:
kind of hat.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I, I know, right. And so I look back now and I'm like, the signs were there all along. Um, but I often, like you said, like I had this vague sense that maybe I had a learning disorder, but also.
María-Victoria:
Hmm
Katy Weber (she/her):
I also very much fell into that trap of like, I could be working harder. Like I need to be working harder like these people. And if I did
María-Victoria:
Mmm,
Katy Weber (she/her):
do that,
María-Victoria:
right,
Katy Weber (she/her):
I would be doing better. And so like, Oh,
María-Victoria:
right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
you know, that narrative of just like, it's my own fault. I've done this to myself. Um,
María-Victoria:
Mm,
Katy Weber (she/her):
I should be working harder.
María-Victoria:
right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, I hear that more in these entrepreneur days than in the school days, because I was very eager to please in the school days. So I think, and we can zoom back around to codependency in a hot second, but it was really the people-proving and people-pleasing that led me to sort of push through my brain in a way in order to show up for school. Mostly, mostly.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah. Yeah, I remember having a conversation about school on a previous podcast where we were talking about how it's like you can do one thing or the other. And so like my first year, I was the social butterfly, I socialized and I did terribly in school because my focus was on socializing. And then when I dropped out and I came back and I thought, okay, now I really, really wanna do well. And that became
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
my hyper focus. And so I couldn't socialize, I couldn't have friends. All I could do was study. And it was really like, I couldn't balance. I think that was the thing was I always looked around at
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
everybody
María-Victoria:
Ahem.
Katy Weber (she/her):
else who was able to do all of these things with a sense of balance. And I was like, no, I can, I have chosen to be the, the work, like the study or now and everything else had to fall by the wayside and how it's like, we have this
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
sort of, you know, inability to kind of have healthy,
María-Victoria:
balance.
Katy Weber (she/her):
right? Healthy balance in our life. And I
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
saw,
María-Victoria:
yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I see those patterns a lot, yeah.
María-Victoria:
That's some realness for sure. And I think I think I was often really bored in school, you know, and I think that's part of what made it really challenging was that like my brain was just whizzing ahead of what we were doing. And I wasn't I didn't have the space, the capacity of my nervous system to hold that energy. And so it would just come out as being spazzy and futsy and just You know?
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah, yeah,
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
for sure.
María-Victoria:
which I think is all too common for us.
Katy Weber (she/her):
So now when you were diagnosed, what were some of the things looking back at like your younger life where you felt like, oh, the signs were there all along?
María-Victoria:
Oh my goodness. Well, I mean, the aforementioned spazziness, the feeling like I couldn't sit still, like I just like, even right now, my leg is twitching, like I'm shaking my desk, right? Like, just feeling like I always that like tactile, like I always needed something sensory to be doing with my paws. And I can definitely look back and... There were subjects where I absolutely excelled because I was hyper-focused and hyper-focusable. And there were subjects where I just didn't care. And so focusing seemed actually literally impossible because there was just no way to convince my brain that it was worth paying attention to stuff that I don't care about. And now we know why, right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
And I definitely felt shame and guilt for that. And like I should be, right? You mentioned all those shoulds. Like I should be able to like all the other girls. Oh, and then, you know, this huge one that plagued me in my 20s. I remember thinking about... All the women I, or the girls, right, or the kids that I grew up with and I was in a program that was K through 12. And so a whole bunch of us in the like, the gifted and talented program, side note how effed up that was called gifted and talented. I was like, what were the other kids?
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm sorry.
María-Victoria:
Right? Like, what
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
is this dichotomy? What is this binary? Some of you are gifted and talented, and some of you are like scumbags. Like, what is this? But anyway, I don't think they use that language anymore. It's hurtful. Point being, I would look at these kids that I'd like known since 1984, and they had like one, like a singular passion. Right? Like the one girl who, like, there was a program in my town at the local university at Brown where you could apply as a high school student to med school. And so you would do four years of undergrad and then four years of med school at Brown. And several kids from my high school went to that. And I remember thinking, like, how on earth? Do you just have one passion? How on earth do you just have like the one thing you wanna do and how do you feel so secure in knowing who you are and what you wanna do? And that's been my whole career. Like you very kindly called it a patchwork. I kind
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
of loved that. But my career has been circuitous as the word I've used. done the very ADHD bounce around, right? Of like, this is exciting and this is fun for three to five years and then this is exciting and this is fun, right? And I have definitely problematized that in my day and thought like, oh, Maria Victoria, can't you just have one thing? But like, no, I can't. And now
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right?
María-Victoria:
that's okay, right? And like now that's part of my superpower.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I was going to
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
say, now I view that I always talk about my drawer of discarded boxes of business cards where I would order, you
María-Victoria:
Yes!
Katy Weber (she/her):
know, I would
María-Victoria:
Yes!
Katy Weber (she/her):
order business cards for new business and hand out two or three of them. And
María-Victoria:
Sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
then, and then it's still there because I was onto a new business. And I used to always look at that and like this drawer of failure of all of these businesses I had started that never went anywhere. And now I'm just sort of like, No, I mean, they're this amazing perspective that we bring. Like one of our, one of our biggest talents is to be able to pivot and bring in so many points of view to one single situation, which I think is, is, um, so beneficial in so many fields that you see us in a lot
María-Victoria:
Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
of the time, or that seemed to be like very over or very well populated by people with ADHD.
María-Victoria:
Yeah, and...
Katy Weber (she/her):
So yeah, I almost said overpopulated. I was like, no.
María-Victoria:
Nope. Rewrite. Yeah. Yeah. And I think our being multi-passionate is really dope.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
Like it's really dope. I'm trying to bring dope back.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Alright.
María-Victoria:
or rad and rad. I don't know. I've just been having a 90s moment. It's fine. I'll get over it probably
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm
María-Victoria:
in
Katy Weber (she/her):
gonna
María-Victoria:
the next five
Katy Weber (she/her):
go.
María-Victoria:
minutes.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm gonna go.
María-Victoria:
So that's good. But um, yeah, I think it's really it's beautiful, right? And I think it's inspiring how multi passionate we can be and how excited we can be and how yeah, just how much we can create in one little lifetime because our brains are so malleable and flexible. and are willing to go with it in a different way, I think, than our non-ADHD counterparts.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Well, you know, and it's funny because I always, um, I feel like the medical field, stay
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
with me for a second here.
María-Victoria:
Okay.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I feel like the medical field is so siloed in a lot of ways, right? When
María-Victoria:
Mm-mm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
seeing specialists. And so one
María-Victoria:
Sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
of the things that I think is so incredible is how holistic our approach often needs to be when it comes to wellness.
María-Victoria:
Mm-hmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
And, and it bothers me when I go to specialists who are just like, not even willing to listen. to how, you know, my, my teeth grinding might be affecting my gate, right? Or
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
like all
María-Victoria:
absolutely.
Katy Weber (she/her):
of these ways in which, um,
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
our bodies are this whole being. And so, um, so now I'm curious as a nurse practitioner, having that background, how did you end up so, um, you know, focusing on, on codependency and relation relational
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
issues. See what I did with that.
María-Victoria:
I love that. That was actually, that was superlative.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm sorry.
María-Victoria:
So just a medal will be arriving at your house within the hour. Well done. Yeah, you know? It's from that holistic lens. So I was a birth doula first, I was an herbalist first, I come from a line of green witches. It was really from seeing the holistic side first that I came into Western medicine. And so when I was sitting with patients, I worked in primary care for many, many years and then have a private practice in Manhattan. And another brilliant part of our ADHD brains is pattern recognition. Right? We are champion level pattern recognizers. Thank you very much. Right? In my epidemiology classes, oof. Right? Back
Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm-hmm.
María-Victoria:
up. Captain ADHD is here to solve the answer.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm
María-Victoria:
Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
sorry.
María-Victoria:
Find the answers. Save the day. Right? Save the orphans. Here we go. Fix it all. And I just remember just looking at patient after patient. And all these women, I was a functional medicine gastroenterology specialist. And. These women who had these chronic GI symptoms and day after day, what I was really hearing under it all was mindset. And what was under the mindset was a nervous system. And what was under the nervous system and sort of concurrent with was this story that has become my definition of codependent perfectionist and people pleasing thinking, which I call emotional outsourcing. So emotional outsourcing is when we chronically and habitually source our sense of worth, wellness, and value from everyone and everything outside of ourselves instead of from within. And so it means we're constantly looking to others to prove that it's OK for us to be alive, to breathe, to be a human on the planet, that we are worthy of love, we're worthy of care. And so we're constantly working to prove our lovability. proverbial supper because we are so scared that we don't matter. So we take everything personally, we get defensive, we seek to people please and people prove which is when we get all the degrees and the certificates and the promotions and the etc. to try to garner people's approval of us. And we do all of that from this deep core wounding. And so I started to really see these stories as the thing underlying all the symptoms, right? All the fatigue, all the adrenal issues, all the thyroid issues, all the gut issues, the constant migraines, the ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. When we look at the science of the nervous system, that's concurrent with not being in ventral vagal, the safe and social part of the nervous system as your steady state. It's concurrent with your nervous system being dysregulated, right? And so. From my point of view and my values, it was unethical to keep handing out supplements and prescriptions for what's really a mindset and nervous system issue. Which doesn't mean that my colleagues who are writing prescriptions for compounded fag rate are doing anything wrong. We need them, but it's not my calling on this planet. As the pattern recognizing super machine my ADHD brain is, I am best, I am of most service on this planet, By helping people to see the flaws in their thinking, and when I say flaws, I mean the thing that is ouchy, right? Not a good bad, but like what is hurting you in your thinking? And how is that jacking your nervous system? And how is your jacked nervous system leading you to stay in these same thoughts that keep you in codependent perfectionist and people pleasing experiences of life? Experiences which, to quote many a scientific study, really suck.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Whew. Yeah. Thank
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
you.
María-Victoria:
that.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Preach.
María-Victoria:
Okay,
Katy Weber (she/her):
That's
María-Victoria:
cool.
Katy Weber (she/her):
a mouthful, right? No,
María-Victoria:
Thank you. Yeah, great. I do need a nap.
Katy Weber (she/her):
well, it's something I feel like it's a theme that gets talked about a lot on the podcast. I certainly
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
am fascinated by it and talk a lot about it in terms of the, like the small T traumas that
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
we experience growing up undiagnosed, you know,
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and, and, and even, even diagnosed, right. The, because there is so, so much stigma and expectation in terms of. fitting in and how so many of us tend to, you know, use anxiety, uh, and rely on anxiety as a motivator. But many
María-Victoria:
Heh!
Katy Weber (she/her):
of us also, like
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
you, like you said, I love the term people proving, right? It really,
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I haven't heard that one before, but it's like,
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
it falls
María-Victoria:
Mm
Katy Weber (she/her):
under that same umbrella of perfectionism
María-Victoria:
hmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and masking and people pleasing and really what that body dysmorphia, like all of this falls
María-Victoria:
Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
under this umbrella of this desire to control how we are perceived.
María-Victoria:
Mm-hmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Um, and so for me, like when I think about that and how much we try to feel like if I can just be the puppet master and make sure everybody is happy and everybody is seeing what I'm trying to show them, that's like, that is a trauma response. As far as
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm concerned, like that is hypervigilance, uh, is trying to, trying to be that, you know, making sure everybody else is okay before we make sure we're okay. And I think that a lot of that comes from the denial, that constant denial of like who we are, who our essence is
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
as a neurodivergent brain, that it's like, oh, I, you know, we stop listening to our intuition. We stop trusting our guts and we start outsourcing our knowledge even, right?
María-Victoria:
Mm-hmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
As well as emotion. And we outsource our worth, we outsource our value and we end up, like you said, like physically ill.
María-Victoria:
Yep.
Katy Weber (she/her):
And most of the time we end up burnt out too.
María-Victoria:
Mm-hmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
And it's so, yeah. And
María-Victoria:
Whew.
Katy Weber (she/her):
it's funny because there was this really controversial Washington Post piece recently, I don't know if you saw it, where the headline, the article itself didn't address this, but the headline, which was probably a very poor choice, said ADHD is an illness. And it was talking about, the article, the crux of the opinion piece was basically like ADHD needs to be taken seriously. by the medical profession, right? We need to stop gaslighting people with ADHD.
María-Victoria:
Oh, for sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
And so we need to take it seriously. And so it was sort of labeled as an illness and all these people were, there was all this backlash because it's like ADHD is an illness, ADHD is a neurodivergence. And it wasn't even toxic positivity so much as people feeling, I think, very threatened by that term illness. And I had shared the article on my Instagram stories and I was getting some pushback about how dare you. At the end of the day, I sort of felt like, yes, the wording is not great, but it speaks to the illness, you know, as opposed to the not wellness of how we are treating ADHD, how we are thinking about ADHD
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and how it is being, um, you know, dismissed so widespread in terms of the, the medical community. And so anyway,
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
it reminded
María-Victoria:
It's interesting.
Katy Weber (she/her):
me of,
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
go ahead.
María-Victoria:
yeah. It makes me think of how often what is lumped in as part of like the diagnostic pathologizing criteria is actually a healthy response to an FDUP system.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? Well, that's the term disability too, right? Which is like, is it a disability or is it just, you know, things are only a disability if you don't have the accessibility aspect, right? So, you know, it's only a disability, being in a wheelchair is only a disability when there are no wheelchair ramps. If you live in a society that
María-Victoria:
Exactly.
Katy Weber (she/her):
accommodates, it's no longer
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
a disability. And so I sort of thought they were coming at that in terms of the term illness, but I don't know. They
María-Victoria:
Yeah
Katy Weber (she/her):
ended up being a clarification a couple days later that I think ended up being worse than the original. But
María-Victoria:
Oh no.
Katy Weber (she/her):
anyway, it's
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
one of the topics that we talk about a lot, which is, you know,
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
is this a superpower? Is this a disorder? Is this, you know, a disability? All of those questions in terms of what is the most helpful approach
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
to managing and living with ADHD?
María-Victoria:
Right. Well, and I think that is as variable as anything else, right, particularly when we're talking diagnostic criteria. Right. So if you have ADHD and get all the support and care you need as a kiddo and learn all the tools, how does it turn out in your life versus like, not getting diagnosed until you're in your 20s and going and seeking it yourself and like, right? Like how does that shape your experience? I'll also say that one of the things that has, let me say this carefully, I wanted to say helped with my ADHD, but that is pathologizing, isn't it? One of the things that has helped me to regulate my experience of ADHD. Do I like that? I like
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
that. That doesn't feel pathologizing, right? It's regulating,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
not controlling, not blaming, not just right. OK, cool, cool, cool.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I
María-Victoria:
So.
Katy Weber (she/her):
call it surfing. I'm like, I'm not
María-Victoria:
Oh,
Katy Weber (she/her):
trying
María-Victoria:
I.
Katy Weber (she/her):
to fix anything. I just like to surf. I'm not swimming
María-Victoria:
Oh.
Katy Weber (she/her):
upstream. I'm just surfing my ADHD.
María-Victoria:
I love that. I love that. That's so good. I also have this like Buddhist quality to
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right.
María-Victoria:
it, right, where it's like just surfing along. Oh, I like that. OK, cool, cool. So, yeah, regulating my nervous system has been. the most important thing. Because when your nervous system is dysregulated and you are reacting to life from a dysregulated nervous system, good luck focusing on anything other than what your brain wants to hyper-focus on, right? Good luck doing the activities of daily living, good luck. Just, you know, living the life you wanna live and not blowing up your relationships, right? Because there's also that angle, that aspect of the ADHD, like blurting out the thing that's kind of mean, but you didn't really mean to be mean, but you just blurted it.
Katy Weber (she/her):
And they think
María-Victoria:
Big.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm mean and am I mean? Do I not care about these people? Right? Like
María-Victoria:
All
Katy Weber (she/her):
I, well, and that's the thing, you know,
María-Victoria:
right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
with so many of us prior to our ADHD diagnosis are diagnosed with depression, you
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
know, or depression and anxiety.
María-Victoria:
Anxiety. Yep.
Katy Weber (she/her):
And, and I've often questioned, cause you know, I don't think I would go so far as to say I was never depressed, but I often
María-Victoria:
Sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
feel like the depression came from... that feeling of what's wrong with me, right? I was,
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and the feeling of what's wrong with me comes from not understanding dysregulation. It's not a term I ever heard. It's not a term I thought about. It wasn't something
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I paid attention to, but
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
really at the end of the day, I would. have, you know, rage against my kids because I was overstimulated and I didn't
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
know why. Or I would yell at, you know, my husband was walking on eggshells because I didn't know, you know, why I was so angry. And all of
María-Victoria:
Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
that came from dysregulation, but the depression
María-Victoria:
True?
Katy Weber (she/her):
came from me feeling like a bad mom, feeling
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
like a bad partner, wondering
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
what's wrong with me and not being able
María-Victoria:
Yes.
Katy Weber (she/her):
to like fix who I was.
María-Victoria:
Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
And so that's why I'm like, you know, it really knowledge is such power when it comes
María-Victoria:
Yep.
Katy Weber (she/her):
to being in a regulated state versus a dysregulated state. Those are terms I use all the time now
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
in such a hilarious way. And yet never in a million years did I think I was overstimulated. Did I ever think I had any kind of regulation issues? So yes, I think it's so like, why aren't we teaching that in school?
María-Victoria:
I don't know. I mean, I'm going to tell you that I use sine waves and cosines constantly. Oh wait. Hold on. What?
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right? Let me just pull out my Texas Instruments calendar or
María-Victoria:
Oh
Katy Weber (she/her):
calculator
María-Victoria:
my God,
Katy Weber (she/her):
for
María-Victoria:
I
Katy Weber (she/her):
you.
María-Victoria:
love that thing. And mostly what we used it for was writing hello backwards,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right?
María-Victoria:
like
Katy Weber (she/her):
Or boobless.
María-Victoria:
zero, or boobs, or boobless. Uh-huh, yep. Oh,
Katy Weber (she/her):
I know, right?
María-Victoria:
80085. I mean, that is just the key, boobs.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Oh
María-Victoria:
But yeah, we really should be all the childrens. should be learning this. And I think what's really challenging is we live in the US in such a dysregulated society. The milieu is so dysregulated writ large that it's really challenging to be one
Katy Weber (she/her):
Well,
María-Victoria:
person. Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I think there's also a lot of virtue in like pushing through, right? Like I think our culture talks about, you know, this idea of pushing past your comfort zone and, you know, doing, going full, going full hard and we're, you know, it's virtuous to work 80 hours a week and, you know, all of these
María-Victoria:
Mm-hmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
ways in which we push ourselves so hard. point of burnout, that's
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
kind of that that shows that we're passionate or that shows that
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
we care about people. It's
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
so it's just so messed up.
María-Victoria:
Right, well, it's a system that prioritizes capitalism, and white settler colonialist frameworks, patriarchal frameworks instead of human frameworks.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
And I think that's, again, that. framework for living these systems of oppression when that meets someone who is raised in an environment that primed them for being an emotional outsourcer, right? It is that is the creates that morass in which there is no true self-care. Everyone else is ahead of us. Our worth is in minute to minute, moment to moment question based on like, did someone look at me funny? Did my boss really like my project? Right? There's this constant questioning of our value. and then you add being a neurodivergent magical super powered ADHD or to it and it really is it becomes quite the tailspin
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
yeah
Katy Weber (she/her):
This is why I feel like I'm always asking quite those questions where I'm like, is this ADHD or am I an angry feminist living in post Trump America and like all of these ways in which I'm like, I'm just fed up with
María-Victoria:
Sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
the, all of this. And I'm like, so is that just, you know, or is it ADHD that's causing my perfectionism and my masking and all of that. So, but w which actually I want to get back to codependency too, because I
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
feel like another misdiagnosis that I see
María-Victoria:
very
Katy Weber (she/her):
a lot
María-Victoria:
much.
Katy Weber (she/her):
is borderline personality disorder.
María-Victoria:
Oh, huh.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Um, and sort of that feels very much like, you know, that, that, uh, emotional outsourcing, right? Is that, that's such a great term.
María-Victoria:
Oh,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Um,
María-Victoria:
thank you. I trademarked it.
Katy Weber (she/her):
did you really? Good for
María-Victoria:
I
Katy Weber (she/her):
you.
María-Victoria:
really did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was very I'm very proud of it. Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
No, it's true. Right. Which is really
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
just that idea of like how we kind of lose a sense of ourself and our inner, inner wisdom. And we attach ourselves right to other people. We don't like to be in the driver's seat sometimes when, especially when it comes to emotions.
María-Victoria:
Or we go hyperindependent, which people don't think of as a kind of emotional outsourcing. People don't think that that's in its way codependent, but when we're hyperindependent, what we're saying is I... I have this deep belief that I am responsible for managing other people's feelings and their lived experience. And I don't think that I'm up for it. I fear that I don't have the skills to manage your emotions, though I'm going to try. And so if I don't ask for help, don't ask for support, don't receive love, don't receive care, I'm just fine. I'm fine. I'm cool. I'm fine. No, don't worry about me. I'm cool. I'm fine. All the time, which I think is part of the ADHD masking, right? It can look like that. I won't have to manage anyone else's emotions if they're disappointed, if they're upset, if they don't want to help, if they give from obligation. Their experience is inherently my problem, so if I don't engage with them, then there's one less problem, right? I'm fine. I'm exhausted. I'm on the verge of burnout. I cry myself to sleep every night, but I'm fine. I'm fine. Don't worry about it. I'm fine. I'm cool. I got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. I'm really smart. It's okay. I got it. Don't worry.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Oh my god, I feel like everybody listening to this is probably like just like
María-Victoria:
I'm
Katy Weber (she/her):
nodding
María-Victoria:
dying!
Katy Weber (she/her):
me like, oh my god, you're
María-Victoria:
Ugh!
Katy Weber (she/her):
seeing into my soul. Yeah.
María-Victoria:
Right? I mean, like, because that started for me when I was a little girl of like, I can't rely on these people, like these tall people in my house to emotionally support me or show up for me like they do not have the skills or the tools or the time. You know, and so that it's on me and it is not really didn't really feel particularly smart or safe to ask them to show up for me. So I'm fine. No, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm don't worry about it. I'm cool.
Katy Weber (she/her):
See, that's another thing that I feel like we often talk about in terms of support systems, right? And
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
that as women, as girls, we are socialized to be the support system,
María-Victoria:
Uh-huh.
Katy Weber (she/her):
whereas men are socialized to seek support systems
María-Victoria:
Correct.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and, and, and, you know, they have moms and secretaries and wives.
María-Victoria:
Right,
Katy Weber (she/her):
And
María-Victoria:
right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
so, you know, a lot of the time that, that I don't know if I've going to butcher this, but you were like, your wellbeing is my responsibility,
María-Victoria:
deeply.
Katy Weber (she/her):
right? Like I think that's deeply
María-Victoria:
Yep.
Katy Weber (she/her):
inherent in our socialization.
María-Victoria:
Yep.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Uh,
María-Victoria:
Yep.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and then, you know, when a story I've shared before on the podcast, which always, you know, I can laugh about now because we've been together for 22 years. But when I, when I knew that my, I was like really in love with my husband on his birthday, I wrote him this really, really sappy note, breaking up with him because I knew.
María-Victoria:
Oh.
Katy Weber (she/her):
that I was like, I'm in really deep with this person. And eventually at some point, he's going to see the real me and he's going to dump me and he's gonna break my heart. Right? And so I was convinced that like, I needed to like get out before I was hurt because I was so attached to him. And so I tried to dump him and thankfully he was like, what are you doing? It's my birthday. You're, we're not breaking up. And he wouldn't like, he wouldn't accept it. And he sort of saw through that. dramatic flair of mine, but you know, um, it just, I think it speaks to what we were, what we're talking about of that feeling of like, I don't know if I have the energy to keep this up any, you know, for my whole life or I'm going to be so heartbroken when you finally eventually discover the real me and dump me. Right. And this idea
María-Victoria:
Oh
Katy Weber (she/her):
that we always have this, like this, this version like we always
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
think that we need to be in control or that it is our responsibility to make other people like us It's our responsibility to make other people comfortable and I'm like, where's that coming from? Is that is that just being female is or you know, is that just is or is that a neurodivergent thing? Or is it all of the above?
María-Victoria:
I feel like, okay, generally speaking, I feel like everything is all of the above, like just to like say that
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm sorry.
María-Victoria:
plainly, but yeah, I think it's growing up, AFAB and the patriarchy is like a really solid place to look for that. And then, you know, our parents were boomers, right? Or the silent generation. So. Our moms were also taught this, but even more hardcore than us, and their moms, and their moms, and their moms. So it's this multi-generational mother wound, right, that is created by the patriarch and keeps us at odds with what the possibility of being a woman really can be. And it becomes this really limited framework, right, where exactly what you were saying, where everyone's guardian, everyone's caretaker, everyone's gatekeeper, right? fully showing up for ourselves. Because like, who's got the time?
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right? Well,
María-Victoria:
Or the
Katy Weber (she/her):
and
María-Victoria:
energy? Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
this, well, and I feel like it's such a leap of faith too, right? When it
María-Victoria:
Mmm,
Katy Weber (she/her):
comes to
María-Victoria:
of
Katy Weber (she/her):
boundaries.
María-Victoria:
course.
Katy Weber (she/her):
And
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I think that's one of the things I work on with my clients a lot, which is like, you just have to trust that if you put yourself first and you say, no, it's going to manifest the life you've been trying to get this whole time. by putting yourself out there and being everything for everyone and burning yourself
María-Victoria:
Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
out. But it's a real
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
leap of faith. I don't know how you deal with their, I don't know how you kind of coach your clients out of that mentality of, of, you know, emotional outsourcing.
María-Victoria:
Well, mindset doesn't come in for quite a while for me. So we start with the body. We start with somatics. And we start with really learning to map the nervous system every single stage of interactions. So your partner asks you to do a thing. Where's your nervous system? What state is your nervous system in? What are you experiencing somatically? Are you in a little bit of adrenaline? Do you feel that edge? Because we've already done work where we've gone into sympathies. and felt what that feels like in a safe container and come back to ventral and gone into dorsal the retreat check out disconnected part of the nervous system and come back to ventral we've done that we've mapped that right so now we bring it to real life right they ask you to do something does your breath catch a little bit does your diaphragm now have to hold your spine up because your breath is up here because you went a little sympathetic and you're leaving Okay, great, perfect, beautiful, mapped it. We've got it. Now, let's bring you back to self, individual vagal. Right, we use a tool from Strozzi. What does it feel like to be centered in your height, in your width, in your depth, in that moment, when something is being asked of you? What does it feel like somatically to be present and centered and grounded in every dimension of you? And from there, How can you source safety for yourself from yourself first? And then because we're not out here for more rugged individualism, we're not out here for more siloed healing, how can you co-regulate your nervous system if that is possible, right? Can you turn to your partner and share what's real? Right, and if you can't yet, that's cool. We'll get there. First we saw safety within, in the body, then the mind, and then we attempt to co-regulate where possible. Yeah? And so sometimes if that's not talking to your partner, is there a plant around you can talk to? Is there a pet around? Is there a children whose little tiny head you can smell? Right? Like, right? Whose weight can support you? Is there a chihuahua? Cause there's a grumpy one at my feet wearing diapers.
Katy Weber (she/her):
..
María-Victoria:
And he's a bastard and I love him. Um, right? How can you source and resource what you need to feel as safe as possible so you can ask not your mind but your body what the next right step is for you?
Katy Weber (she/her):
I love that, yeah.
María-Victoria:
It's pretty rad. It's a pretty rad process because it really after you know, when was Descartes, right? Like we've kind of this mind body dualism has been around for a hot minute. And so it really returns primacy to the body in a world where cognition has become everything much to our I don't know, I don't think it's I don't think it's much good for us says an incredibly overeducated woman.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Well, and I think that that is one of the, one of the, you know, unwitting side effects of a diagnosis, even though it's
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
funny because, you know, and I talk a lot about how one of the things that's so amazing about a diagnosis of ADHD or a diagnosis of autism and adulthood is the fact that we don't view it as pathological at all, right? This
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
is such clarity, there's so much information. And so
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
it really does kind of split the script with a lot of this stuff. And so once we start paying attention to, and paying attention is not something we've been historically very good at because we're in a constant state of overwhelm. So it's like, once you get to a point where you can start paying attention again, then you start listening to your intuition, you start listening to your gut, you start saying, this is not. This doesn't serve me or this is what
María-Victoria:
Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
I want to go after. Right. And, and then your intuition becomes so much stronger when it comes to so many people and jobs and decisions, right? It's just like this, suddenly this, this, you know, tool that you never had before in your toolbox becomes so much, um, so much more louder and sharper
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
or whatever tool
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
metaphor, but you know, it's like, I think people don't, it's so wonderful to watch that, uh, grow, you know, where you're not expecting it from an ADHD diagnosis. Cause most people are like, Oh, I finally know what's wrong with me. You're like, no, you finally figured out what's right. Um,
María-Victoria:
Right? What your
Katy Weber (she/her):
yeah.
María-Victoria:
superpower and your magicalness is is is... Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
But, but
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I find that with ADHD, like I have to be very careful when I'm asking clients to pay attention because paying attention is, you know, something that can be really difficult in the beginning. So I love how you kind of walked through.
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
those just those literal baby steps, uh, with the baby sniffing, because it's really just like, um, you know, slowing down and I don't know, I lost my train of thought, but yeah, it was, it was really lovely listening to you. Cause I think that's kind of, um, you know, how there's something very intentional about having to slow down. And I think it's something that we don't, you know, where we are not necessarily very good at, at the beginning of our diagnosis.
María-Victoria:
Yeah, absolutely. And it really is where so much of our power lies, right? Because when we slow down, we notice the nuance. And when we slow down, we invite ourselves to step into responsiveness from habitual reactivity. And we invite ourselves to make really conscious, intentional choices about ourselves, our lives, and the next moment, the next breath, the next word out of our mouths. And so my passion for somatics is really, A, number one, a deeply feminist one. B, number two, the science is dope. But it's really about choicefulness. It's really about agency. Because when I can map my nervous system, I know what I am likely to do on autopilot next. And then I get to choose and decide, like, do I want to do that thing? Do I want to throw this plate? Do I want to scream at that dog? Do I want to slam this door? Do I want to storm out of here? Do I want to retreat into myself and say, I am a rock, I am an island? and I won't let you in, right? What do I actually want to do? And not what does the default mode want to do? Because the default mode, generally speaking, sucks. Like, right? For most of us, the default mode is not cute. It does not feel good. The outcomes are on a scale of somewhere between lousy and terrible. There are seven. And so Maddox gives us an opportunity to say like, hold up, wait a second, I don't wanna repeat the thing that I've always done, the way I've always done it. I don't want to react in that codependent way. I don't want to people please, I want to pause and me please for a second, right? I wanna set this healthy boundary because healthy boundaries are resentment prevention, right? Whereas living from obligation is that is just inviting in so much resentment, so much upset, so much discord and strife that is just and suffering that is frankly unnecessary. That's the thing emotional outsourcing creates unnecessary suffering. It is the Buddha's second arrow every 12 to 13 seconds.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Wow. I just wrote that healthy boundaries are resentment prevention. I got to
María-Victoria:
Oh
Katy Weber (she/her):
tattoo
María-Victoria:
yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
that because I,
María-Victoria:
Okay, good.
Katy Weber (she/her):
well, I feel like that's also the case too. When we talk about, um, like accommodations, right? Like I talk, when we talk about accommodations at work, there's always that fear that if I ask for what I need, I am somehow, um, I'm, you know, I'm trying to get away with something, right? Or, you know, that I'm going to be trying to get special treatment. And it's like, no, you're actually. you're looking for ways that you can show up as the best version of yourself. Like you, that your boss, your, whoever it is that you're talking to your partner, like these are ways in which they would be supportive of that. Like, like you are saying, I want, I have seen something that will help me be a great version of myself. And so how can we have that support?
María-Victoria:
Right, right. And also, like another direction to go is, so what if you are asking for special treatment? Do you not deserve special treatment? This is when women come to me and they're like, oh, I don't wanna like ask for my needs to be met because I don't want to be seen as selfish. I'm like, girl, what is wrong with selfish? The opposite is selfless. Right,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right? It's like
María-Victoria:
you
Katy Weber (she/her):
bragging.
María-Victoria:
want to not have a self? Because that's what we've been trained up in. And how's that going so far? How's that feeling? You have a very short time on this planet. You really want to spend it not having a self.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm-hmm.
María-Victoria:
or not feeling special and not getting the special things that help you to feel special. I love giving people special treatment. Love it. Love it. Here for it. Let's do it. Let's give everyone more special treatment so they can feel more selfish. Thank
Katy Weber (she/her):
Oh, I love
María-Victoria:
you.
Katy Weber (she/her):
that.
María-Victoria:
That's a revolution right there.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I know, right? My boomer
María-Victoria:
Come on.
Katy Weber (she/her):
grandmother is rolling in her grave though. But the martyr, because I think that there was such the sense of like, worth through martyrdom, which like
María-Victoria:
Savior,
Katy Weber (she/her):
you said,
María-Victoria:
Martyr,
Katy Weber (she/her):
I
María-Victoria:
Saint.
Katy Weber (she/her):
love, right? Where I'm like, I just love the way that you're just like, where did that get you? Right? Like, let's think about how that's been serving
María-Victoria:
How we
Katy Weber (she/her):
us
María-Victoria:
live
Katy Weber (she/her):
so
María-Victoria:
in,
Katy Weber (she/her):
far.
María-Victoria:
how are we live in? How are we live in from martyr? Does that feel good? Is that, what are your anxiety levels? How
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
fulfilled are you? What is your sense of self? Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
I know, right? Yeah, yeah.
María-Victoria:
And how are you making everyone else feel? So, god, my ex's mother was like... Oh, Lisa was like the most profound case of of Savior Saint fixer martyrdom. And I remember every holiday meal, she would like run herself ragged to make it completely perfect and have the table perfect. And, you know, she'd be like, we'd all sit down to dinner and she'd like be a mess still and like really pointedly letting us know. That's the thing, right? Because the martyr, the flip side of it is of that long suffering is everyone around you suffers a long time. And so it was very clear to us just how much she'd been suffering and that she could like not even sit down. Right? So all we wanted was like chicken nuggets and to hang out with her, you know, or like skip the chicken nuggets. Fine, just hang out. But that martyrdom creates this maelstrom of proving that means everyone has a crappy time. Right, so it's like when we think our suffering creates something nice for others, that is such a sentinel sign of slow down. Pause. Check yourself in advance of wrecking yourself.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Hmm. Oh my goodness. Huh? Right? Yeah. But
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I think it's, I think it's also, um, like you said, I think it is absolutely essential to bring in support where you can find it because it's not something you're going to figure out. It's not something you should have to figure out on your own. And that, I think that comes back to that idea of like, Uh, we feel a lot of pressure to figure things out on our own instead
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
of asking for help. I think that's kind of like you were talking about before, like pull it that pulling away, right? Which is like,
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
um, distancing ourselves from support even, um, for, yeah. Oh my God. I feel like I could talk to you for hours. Thank you.
María-Victoria:
Well, let's do another episode. That'll
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right.
María-Victoria:
be fun.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Seriously.
María-Victoria:
We'll do it again. Yeah, no big
Katy Weber (she/her):
Um,
María-Victoria:
deal. I'm here.
Katy Weber (she/her):
so, so now you have, you have a workshop, right? A 90 minute workshop on polyvagal in the nervous system.
María-Victoria:
I sure do. It's a good time. Yeah, it's a good time. All of my workshops, I then also have a three month program called the Somatic Studio, which is all about somatics and our nervous system and reclaiming our agency through somatics. And my six month program is a deep dive into thought work, somatics, breath work, and emotional outsourcing. So a real focus on that with this really beautiful community. It's gorgeous. That's called Anchored.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Hmm. Right. And that, and so do your clients come to you knowing? So, so it's called anchored overcoming, overcoming codependency. And I am like, do your clients come to you knowing that they are codependent? Or is that something
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
like, or cause I feel like that is in itself is a, is a major cognitive step before
María-Victoria:
Right?
Katy Weber (she/her):
even getting help, right? So
María-Victoria:
Seriously.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm like, where, where are your clients usually at when they come to you?
María-Victoria:
Yeah, most of them, most folks like a therapist or a dear friend, someone was like, hey girl, hey.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Hahahaha
María-Victoria:
Someone's gotta let you know that you got the co. Once again, like it's an STI, you got the co. You've got it, you got it. I had the clap last year, don't be embarrassed, you've got the co. And... Yo mama's got it too. So,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Ha!
María-Victoria:
yeah, most folks would let know, sometimes gently, sometimes not, that like, emotional out-sorting is probably part of your picture. A lot of people come to Feminist Wellness, my podcast from their therapists. Isn't that fun?
Katy Weber (she/her):
Uh,
María-Victoria:
I love
Katy Weber (she/her):
no,
María-Victoria:
that.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I, it's great. I feel like that's a lot of my listeners actually come
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
to this podcast from their therapist
María-Victoria:
Makes
Katy Weber (she/her):
recommended
María-Victoria:
sense.
Katy Weber (she/her):
it, which I'm like,
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
awesome.
María-Victoria:
I know,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Um,
María-Victoria:
I feel so honored when that happens. I'm like, aw gee, aw thanks! That's dope. It was the fifth time I said it. It's like chupacabra, if you say it three times in a row, you bring it to you.
Katy Weber (she/her):
It's,
María-Victoria:
So dope
Katy Weber (she/her):
I don't
María-Victoria:
is
Katy Weber (she/her):
think
María-Victoria:
becoming
Katy Weber (she/her):
it ever
María-Victoria:
a
Katy Weber (she/her):
went
María-Victoria:
thing.
Katy Weber (she/her):
away. I was gonna say, I don't remember
María-Victoria:
Thank
Katy Weber (she/her):
Dope
María-Victoria:
you.
Katy Weber (she/her):
ever going away, but
María-Victoria:
That's
Katy Weber (she/her):
you know,
María-Victoria:
cause
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm
María-Victoria:
we're
Katy Weber (she/her):
also a,
María-Victoria:
old.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I was like. I'm also a, I was like.
María-Victoria:
I think we're like the exact same age. And ahem. Anyway,
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm
María-Victoria:
so
Katy Weber (she/her):
sorry.
María-Victoria:
yeah, most people sort of have this inkling. What's really cute, you know, folks, it's a program you anchored, you applied to, and we always have a conversation because the safety of the container is really important to me in making sure it's the right energetic. blend and we're together for six months. Like I take it very, who's in the program very, very seriously. So I meet with folks first. And what's really cute to me is when people are like, I just don't know if I'm codependent enough to be in the program. Like, what do you think? Do you think I'm codependent enough? And I'm like, oh, sweet baby teddy bear. Listen, we start on Thursday and let's get you, let's get you signed up there. Okay?
Katy Weber (she/her):
hahahaha
María-Victoria:
Yeah. Do I think you're codependent enough? Do you wanna prove it to me? I'm gonna need references from your last three dates. Yeah, that's going to work out well.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Uh oh.
María-Victoria:
No, but it's very sweet. It's very sweet. It's a wonderful, good time. But people sort of come to see even deeper levels of their own codependent thinking as we move through the course. Like, it's constantly in the online community. It's like this constant, module four felt like a complete attack on my personhood. Right? Damn it, I didn't know I did that. Oops. So it's fun.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Oh my God, I love it. Well,
María-Victoria:
It's so good.
Katy Weber (she/her):
yeah, I would say the feminist wellness podcast is a great place to start in terms
María-Victoria:
Mmm,
Katy Weber (she/her):
of just getting
María-Victoria:
yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
to know you and your amazing philosophy and approaches and, you know, all of the kind of holistic value you bring to so
María-Victoria:
Mmm.
Katy Weber (she/her):
many topics. It's an amazing resource. So thank
María-Victoria:
Thank
Katy Weber (she/her):
you
María-Victoria:
you.
Katy Weber (she/her):
for that. You've been doing that for longer than I, you've been doing that since 2019, right?
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah,
María-Victoria:
what
Katy Weber (she/her):
that's
María-Victoria:
is
Katy Weber (she/her):
whoo.
María-Victoria:
time? Yeah. Poof.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right? I know.
María-Victoria:
I know I've like 220 episodes to next week is 222, which
Katy Weber (she/her):
Oh,
María-Victoria:
is
Katy Weber (she/her):
wow.
María-Victoria:
wild.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Congratulations. That's
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
amazing.
María-Victoria:
thank you. I survived. Yeah, 222 episodes. Wow.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Um, well, I don't know about you, but I'm not there yet. I'm only in the one thirties right now, but I'm like, it's such a blast. Like people are
María-Victoria:
It's
Katy Weber (she/her):
always
María-Victoria:
so
Katy Weber (she/her):
like,
María-Victoria:
fun.
Katy Weber (she/her):
how are they're like, how are you still doing this? So don't you have ADHD? Why do you still have a podcast? And I'm like, it is the most fun I've ever had. Like it's,
María-Victoria:
It's
Katy Weber (she/her):
I
María-Victoria:
so fun!
Katy Weber (she/her):
mean, there's all the other stuff, like the editing and putting it out there, that's kind
María-Victoria:
sure.
Katy Weber (she/her):
of gets tedious, but this right here, the conversations
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
like, oh my God, that's, it feeds
María-Victoria:
This is
Katy Weber (she/her):
me
María-Victoria:
it.
Katy Weber (she/her):
so much. I don't know when I'll ever get tired of that, but
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
yeah.
María-Victoria:
I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Okay, so now before I'm going to ask you kind of how people can find you beyond the podcast, but I love to ask my guests if you could rename ADHD to something else. Would you give it another name? Did you think about that?
María-Victoria:
Francine.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Ehh
María-Victoria:
No, just kidding. Ha ha ha.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm sorry.
María-Victoria:
Um... I didn't... So here's the thing about my ADHD. I don't actually read questions before interviews because
Katy Weber (she/her):
I
María-Victoria:
then
Katy Weber (she/her):
know.
María-Victoria:
I'll, like,
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm always
María-Victoria:
micro-focus.
Katy Weber (she/her):
surprised, right? I'm always surprised that people do. Cause I'm always like, I never,
María-Victoria:
Oh
Katy Weber (she/her):
I could
María-Victoria:
shit,
Katy Weber (she/her):
never
María-Victoria:
no,
Katy Weber (she/her):
come up
María-Victoria:
oh
Katy Weber (she/her):
with one.
María-Victoria:
no,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right.
María-Victoria:
never, no, oh my, that is a terrible option for my brain. Give no, because then I'll pre-write a paragraph or 12. So anyway, so what would I rename ADHD? Yeah, because it's not, I mean, there's a whole vast thing that's already a thing.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah.
María-Victoria:
I don't
Katy Weber (she/her):
My
María-Victoria:
know how
Katy Weber (she/her):
problem
María-Victoria:
you feel.
Katy Weber (she/her):
with VAST, I mean, I think it's great, but I don't like the fact that it's just, you can't Google it. Right. Because I feel like so much about ADHD is I think I have ADHD and then you Google it and then you fall down the rabbit hole and then you're, you know, you're hyper-focused on researching and your whole life flashes before your eyes. So I'm like, VAST is great, but it's, you still have to Google ADHD. Like you'll never just be
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
able to Google VAST. So, um, so that's my only complaint about it,
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
but I think it's a good
María-Victoria:
maybe
Katy Weber (she/her):
stab.
María-Victoria:
it'll take off though.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah, maybe. I mean, I definitely like getting rid of the term disorder.
María-Victoria:
Yeah, yeah. And the like, concept of hyperactivity.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right? Yeah. I had, um, I was w William Dodson, who, um, is a psychologist and expert on ADHD. He, he calls it hyper, uh, hyper, oh gosh, what is it? Um, oh, why am I not thinking about it? I've talked about this before. Um, hyper arousal. That's what he said. Instead of hyperactivity, he calls it hyper
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
arousal. And
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I love that phrase. Cause
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I'm like, I feel like that speaks to so much of the emotional. DSM or not the DSM, the default mode stuff,
María-Victoria:
Yep,
Katy Weber (she/her):
right?
María-Victoria:
exactly.
Katy Weber (she/her):
That's hyper arousal. So
María-Victoria:
Yep.
Katy Weber (she/her):
yeah, I kind of like
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
that term. Right.
María-Victoria:
I like that. Yeah, it gives it a broader, it also creates more of a spectrum around it versus
Katy Weber (she/her):
Mm.
María-Victoria:
it being like the one thing kind of vibe.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah. Right. And that's the other thing I think that I often complain about is that it's this sort of, it's diagnosed based on its deficiencies, based on the deficiencies. Whereas something
María-Victoria:
All right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
like where autism is just, you know, much more person first and it's
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
much more of an identity. And
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
so I'm like, why, I think that's why so many of us embrace neurodivergence
María-Victoria:
Right.
Katy Weber (she/her):
as opposed to ADHD, because it's really sort of, um, you know, it's not something you catch at a party.
María-Victoria:
Fingers crossed, who knows how we got it? I don't know.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I love it. Well, oh my goodness. Well, thank you so much. This has been so
María-Victoria:
That was such
Katy Weber (she/her):
wonderful.
María-Victoria:
a blast.
Katy Weber (she/her):
I don't, I feel like I'm like, how am I going to put a headline? This is my hardest
María-Victoria:
I
Katy Weber (she/her):
thing is how do I put a title on these episodes? Cause I'm like, what didn't we talk about? Um, but so in addition to the feminist wellness podcast, which I will have a link to what, uh, how can people reach you and how can they find you and work with you?
María-Victoria:
Yeah, so you can follow me on the Gram, IGiveGoodGram, at
Katy Weber (she/her):
lol
María-Victoria:
Victoria Albino Wellness. It's true, I give good gram. And I have a special treat for your listeners. Ah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
María-Victoria:
who doesn't love a special treat? Well, I mean, fools. Fools, do you know fools have no interest in special treats? They're like, oh, is it just for me? Is it an absolute delight? I don't want it. Thank you, though. This special treat is if you head over to victorialbn.com slash women and ADHD, and we wrote it all out A-N-D, because that's what we did. Women and ADHD, there's a set of meditations, nervous system orienting exercises, and other delights just for your listeners for free. VictoriaLBN.com slash women and ADHD. You can just
Katy Weber (she/her):
Oh,
María-Victoria:
go
Katy Weber (she/her):
that's
María-Victoria:
download it.
Katy Weber (she/her):
awesome.
María-Victoria:
Is that fun?
Katy Weber (she/her):
I will definitely have that link in the show notes
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
and just even just listening to your voice, um, today I'm like, I wish I had meditation recordings of you.
María-Victoria:
Oh, now you do. My meditation teacher voice is a little more like this. And then there's my NPR voice.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Um, I know, right. I feel
María-Victoria:
Yeah.
Katy Weber (she/her):
like, you know, you could, you slip back and forth in your podcast too.
María-Victoria:
I do,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Uh, depending.
María-Victoria:
I do. It's so funny. All of a sudden, I'm in an NPR voice. Yeah, and then the slam poet comes out because you know,
Katy Weber (she/her):
Right.
María-Victoria:
the 90s.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah. The,
María-Victoria:
And that's
Katy Weber (she/her):
uh, the public speaker and yeah, yeah, for sure.
María-Victoria:
Oh, that slam poet voice from the 90s. That's like a whole, that's a whole mood.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Before there was vocal fry, there was slam poet voice.
María-Victoria:
God, we were doing this bar workout the other day and then we go and dip and dip and I was just like, wow.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Oh
María-Victoria:
It's
Katy Weber (she/her):
man.
María-Victoria:
pretty amazing. It was a good time. Thank you
Katy Weber (she/her):
Awesome.
María-Victoria:
for having me.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Yeah, thank you. This has been so great. I was really
María-Victoria:
This is
Katy Weber (she/her):
looking
María-Victoria:
super
Katy Weber (she/her):
forward
María-Victoria:
fun.
Katy Weber (she/her):
to this.
María-Victoria:
Yeah,
Katy Weber (she/her):
You did
María-Victoria:
let's
Katy Weber (she/her):
not
María-Victoria:
do
Katy Weber (she/her):
disappoint.
María-Victoria:
it again.
Katy Weber (she/her):
You give good
María-Victoria:
I'm
Katy Weber (she/her):
pod.
María-Victoria:
so glad. Perfect. Because my value depends on you liking me. Wait a second. Shoot, I better go
Katy Weber (she/her):
That
María-Victoria:
enroll
Katy Weber (she/her):
fell
María-Victoria:
in
Katy Weber (she/her):
apart.
María-Victoria:
Anchored. Damn it!
Katy Weber (she/her):
Oh my goodness. All
María-Victoria:
Good
Katy Weber (she/her):
right. Well,
María-Victoria:
times.
Katy Weber (she/her):
thank you.
María-Victoria:
Okay, bye.
Katy Weber (she/her):
Okay.
María-Victoria:
Thank you. He he.
