Lisa Dee: Yes, you can be happy and healthy with ADHD

Powered by RedCircle

Episode 196 with Lisa Dee.

“ADHD girls deserve to be healthy and happy. I refuse to subscribe to the doom-and-gloom narrative. I wanted something better, and I knew others did, too.”

Lisa is an Irish health and fitness coach based in London, and the founder of “Healthy Happy ADHD.” After building a successful fitness enterprise, Lisa's ADHD diagnosis at 31 sparked a personal health and nutrition tranformation. She soon became inspired her to share her story and a message for other ADHD women: You can be healthy and happy with ADHD!

Her message certainly resonated — she has built a social media community of more than 400,000 followers, and at the end of 2022, she grabbed the attention of a book editor at Random House.

Lisa's new book, “Happy, Healthy ADHD,” is more than just another wellness guide — it’s a game-changer for ADHD women who have struggled with rigid health advice that simply doesn’t work for their brains.

Lisa blends personal experience, cutting-edge research, and practical strategies to help women break free from shame and build sustainable, ADHD-friendly habits.

Unlike conventional fitness and nutrition plans that rely on willpower and discipline, Lisa’s approach embraces flexibility, self-compassion, and fun. She dives into the science of how ADHD affects motivation, energy, hormones, and habits — offering simple, adaptable solutions that work with your brain, not against it.

In this episode, Lisa shares how to ditch the all-or-nothing mindset, find joy in movement, and nourish your body without overwhelm. Whether you’ve struggled with consistency, burnout, or guilt around health and fitness, this conversation is packed with insights and encouragement to help you feel your best — on your own terms.

Website: www.healthyhappyadhd.com

Instagram: @healthyhappyadhd

Links & Resources:

Healthy Happy ADHD: Transform How You Move, Eat, and Feel, and Create Your Own Path to Well-Being by Lisa Dee

Lisa’s ADHD Glow Masterclass

10x Is Easier than 2x: How World-Class Entrepreneurs Achieve More by Doing Less by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy

- - - - -

Episode edited by E Podcast Productions

Lisa Dee 0:00
Life happens. Things happen. Life changes, routines change. It's holding that feature in your mind and knowing, no matter what, that that is possible and that is going to happen, and that little slip up today does not mean that that feature isn't going to happen. That kind of faith and that belief is just so calming and makes everything so much easier. Everything

Katy Weber 0:25
Hello and welcome to the women and ADHD podcast. I'm your host. Katy Weber, I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45 and it completely turned my world upside down. I've been looking back at so much of my life, school, jobs, my relationships, all of it with this new lens, and it has been nothing short of overwhelming. I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience, and now I interview other women who like me discovered in adulthood they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths, both professionally and personally. Well, hello and welcome back. We are not going to waste any time today. We're just going to get started with a brand new episode. Here we are at Episode 196 in which I interviewed Lisa D. Lisa is a health and fitness coach, originally from Ireland and now based in London, and she's the founder of healthy, happy ADHD after building a successful fitness enterprise, Lisa's ADHD diagnosis at the age of 31 sparked a personal health and nutrition transformation. She was so inspired that she decided to share her story on Tiktok with a distinct message for other ADHD women, yes, you can be healthy and happy with ADHD, her message has certainly resonated. She's built a social media community of more than 400,000 followers, and at the end of 2022 she also grabbed the attention of a book editor at Random House, Lisa's brand new book, happy healthy. ADHD is more than just another wellness guide. It is a game changer for ADHD women who have struggled with rigid health advice that simply does not work for their brains. Lisa blends personal experience with cutting edge research and practical strategies to help women break free from shame and build sustainable ADHD friendly habits, and we talk all about it today. So unlike conventional fitness and nutrition plans that rely on willpower and discipline. Lisa's approach embraces flexibility, self compassion and fun. She dives into the science of how ADHD affects motivation, energy, hormones and habits, and she offers simple, adaptable solutions that work with your brain, not against it. In our conversation, Lisa shares how to ditch the all or nothing mindset, how to find joy in movement and nourish your body without overwhelm. So whether you've struggled with consistency, burnout or guilt around health and fitness, this conversation is packed with insights and encouragement to help you feel your best on your own terms. Okay, without further ado, here is my conversation with Lisa D.

Lisa Dee 2:58
Hi, Lisa, welcome to the podcast. Hi. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. So now

Katy Weber 3:04
you're originally from Ireland, but you're living in the UK right now, in London. Yes,

Lisa Dee 3:08
yes, I'm Irish, and moved to London in 2018, Ah, okay. Been here seven, nearly eight years now. Awesome. All right,

Katy Weber 3:19
so let's get started. I want to hear about your ADHD diagnosis. It was, How long ago was it? So

Lisa Dee 3:28
it was the end of 2020, when I kind of realized I probably had ADHD. And

Katy Weber 3:33
it was an Instagram post that really kind of sparked this deep dive. It

Lisa Dee 3:39
was, it was. And you know what? When I saw the Instagram post, I had never really like, known about ADHD. I had never thought about it. I had never come on conversation. There wasn't much about it online. It wasn't a conversation at the time. But whatever. I don't even know the post that I saw, but I remember being like, what like this thing? I need to look into this, and then that I went down a rabbit hole off podcasts and everything I could find about women with ADHD. And yeah, that just sparked this huge interest in ADHD, which I think a lot of us ADHD ers do as well. Like we realize we have ADHD, and then we go and learn everything we can about the ADHD. And by the time it comes to diagnosis, it's almost like we already know that we have it.

Katy Weber 4:23
Oh, absolutely right. That self diagnosis is, you know, those aha moments over and over and over again are so transformative. And not only that, but I think you know, depending on what line of work you're in, like I was a health coach working with binge eating recovery at the time when I discovered I had ADHD, and so it was sort of like, oh yeah. That makes a lot of sense, right? So I felt like I looked, you look back at those just your career choices, and you know, all of the things like you've posted about dropping out of uni, right? And I'm like, oh yeah. Like the signs. Were there all along throughout the whole course of your life. What were some of those things you looked back at from early years where you were like, oh, yeah, okay, this is definitely was here all along. Where do

Lisa Dee 5:11
I even start? I feel like my entire life made sense in that moment, and I was 31 like I had spent my entire life jumping from job to job, career to career, and that's something that I was I was always really good at, was getting new jobs, like not liking something, dropping it, or not enjoying the routine or the structure of the job, and finding a large job. And I was doing that from the age of what like when my late teens, until I was 25 and I started my own business, because I needed my own routine. I needed to be my own boss. I needed to answer to myself. But actually, what happened then was I burnt myself out because I was the boss and I wouldn't allow myself to rest. But that's, that's another, another story, um, looking back on my life, I guess, in school, and this is something, you know, in the diagnosis, I had to go to my parents and ask them about school my partner, I had to speak to him about what was like to live with me. And, you know, pulling up old school reports and all these different things was quite hard because it's so obvious in hindsight, so obvious. But I found that bit quite hard. And looking back in school, I always had great potential. Teachers would say I had great potential. But I would daydream a lot. I would leave homework exams, you know, studies until the night before the very last minute. And that's a really young girl, you know, I love reading. I loved stories. I love going to the library every Thursday evening and getting new books. I love getting lost in different worlds. And when it came to school work, it's I got it when I was able to pay attention long enough to, you know, let it sink in. And I enjoyed when there was practical things we had to like if you could learn on the job, like use our hands. I loved art. I love things like that. But math so hard. Math. And for me, it wasn't even just the math. Was hard. In my head, I knew that I was never going to use this, and that was seen as a sign of, like, rebellion, you know, like just, just learn the math. But me, as a teenager, I don't need this. I don't understand why, where I will ever use this, you know what I mean, so things like that. And then just always knowing that I could do better, but for some reason, never doing better. And when I was in secondary school, do you call it secondary school? Sure. Or do you call it, yeah, exactly. So I would Skype classes, because then I was old enough to, you know, skip class and not show up. And I would sometimes sit in the bathroom, on the floor, sitting up against this radiator, just sitting waiting for the class to be over they didn't want to go to. And then I'd go to the next class. And then I would, you know, leave school, and I'd go here from places, and that was always, you know, frowned upon and looked down on and kind of like it was never questioned. You know, what's wrong? Why don't you want to be in class? It was just bad girl for not going to class. And you could do so much better. You're wasting your life. You're wasting your potential. So I suppose the first two things to answer your question is education. There was very many signs there, and my career, my early career, and then as well, emotions, when I look back over my life and how I felt and how I dealt with the emotions and coping mechanisms that I had, very obvious signs of ADHD,

Katy Weber 8:37
yeah, right, and I think It's why so many of us are diagnosed with something else beforehand, right? Like, you know, either depression and anxiety, but also, like, borderline personality is another one. I see a lot of people getting, you know, that or or bipolar, right? Bipolar too, that, like the emotional mood swings and also not knowing what's wrong with us, right? Like, everything you were talking about, about how disappointing we feel to the people around us, because it's like, You're better than this, right? You have potential. And I also had a real truancy issue in high school, and skipped a lot of school and like, that was one of those things when I was looking back at my school reports to like, I just felt like I'm getting emotional thinking about it, because I just felt so sad for that version of that little girl who, like, gave up on herself, right, who just didn't know right, like, all of those things. And similar to you, like, my parents were very much like, well, you're just not trying right. Like you're they were sort of like, there's so much grief involved in an adult diagnosis. Yeah, yeah,

Lisa Dee 9:46
holding that and trying to understand, then you know what to do with that as an adult. You know, because you can't go back and change any of that, and you can't live in the past. And just because I went through a period of just feeling really sorry for myself for a long time. Yes, and it was actually just not. It wasn't helping. It was making me it was making me worse. It was making everything worse, and trying to, you know, navigate that, figuring out how to feel that feeling, and look back and understand things, but also then how to help yourself move forward and make the best the rest of your life better, the best of your life. So,

Katy Weber 10:22
right, absolutely, especially, you know, now you now you have this information. It really is. It's so empowering. And I think, yeah, you know, it's, how do you hold both of those things? How do you sort of have forgiveness for yourself, for the and forgiveness for the other people in your life who didn't see the signs, right? But also, like, really say, Okay, now that I understand this, what, what is my potential? Like, it's, you know, suddenly realizing, like, yes, there's so much I could be doing with this. I hate to I hate the word superpower, but sometimes I'm like, that's kind of how it feels. Sometimes, right? It's, it's complicated. It is. So I had a laugh when I was reading the introduction of your book, where you talked about going to law school. You were like, experiencing burnout. What exactly happened there? Because you did drop out of you, right? You dropped out of beauty a couple times. So did I? Yeah,

Lisa Dee 11:17
I took a break. I took a break, but, you know, I haven't gone back. Then the book deal came, and I was like, Wait, hold on, this is another path. Let's, let's go this way. Well, actually, it's not my first time. So I actually first went to university when I was 17. And of course, I didn't just go to a local university. I had to fly to a different country. So, you know, I was from Ireland. I went to university in Scotland, and it was my first time at 17 of being free from home, so I just didn't take it seriously. Drank the entire time, and just, you know, almost got kicked out of university because I wasn't showing up to class, and dropped right after the first year. And then that's when I started working full time jobs, and I'd always done quite well in different jobs. I was always able to move up the ladder and kind of get to where I wanted to be, until I started working for myself at 25 as a personal trainer. So I had my own gym as a health and fitness coach, and that was great. Left that after a few years, because I wanted to go traveling full time and work online, so I did that. That was great. Moved to London, and after a couple of years in London, I thought, You know what? I'm going to do another degree. I'm going to do a law degree, not even anything health, fitness, neuroscience, psychology related, in the industry I've been in for 10 years. I'm going to do a law degree. Completely different industry, and I'm going to save the world. I'm going to make changes to the system. I'm going to save women and children. I'm going, you know, that was my dream. I was all in on this. And I applied to the University of Law in London, which is an incredible university, and I funded it. I thought, I'll pay this, I'll save up, and I'll do it. And I just didn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy it. I had to be in the classroom and keep in mind, you know, I'm 3030, something years old, and this is mostly all 1718, year olds, mostly that are going to university for the first time. So I was in a classroom with a lot of people that I couldn't really connect with, you know, properly. And just see, just sitting at that chair on those little, small desks, and the chairs are uncomfortable, and I started to dread it, and the information, like what I was learning, I was like, Yeah, I'm actually enjoying this. Like, it's good to know, it's good to understand the law, for a start, that's one thing doing that degree taught me it's good no matter what, it's good to understand the law, and in whatever country you live in, just the basics, just to know your rights. That gave me a bit of confidence that I was able to actually later use in different tenancy agreements. Actually, I had a really bad landlord a couple of years later, so that was helpful, but in the second year, I just was really dreading going and it just didn't feel right, like in my guts, it just wasn't feeling right anymore. And the when it came to exam time, as I said in the book, I would avoid the assignments, I would avoid writing the essays, I would avoid doing all the stuff until the last minute. But the problem with that as an adult is that now I have other responsibilities. I'm not just doing a degree, I have full time career, a job. I need to be making money to pay my bills, to live my life, right? So it's not the same as when you're a child and you're, you know, skipping school, not doing your homework, leaving it to last a minute. Now as an adult, you have responsibility. So that became really overwhelming, because obviously my business had taken a hit with the 2020 situation, and here I am trying to build that back up. But also I'm doing a law degree, and I was really struggling. And it was in that moment when I was trying to balance both of those things and really, really feeling at it, that I felt like something I. Uh, something just wouldn't write. Like, the things that I would struggle with weren't really making sense to me on paper, you know what I mean? And I would say to myself, like, I've been through harder things in my life, like, why can't I handle this? Why can't I just finish this? And I was just really driving myself crazy. And this went on for quite a while, and it was around the time I saw the Instagram post which led to me learning about ADHD, and that's kind of how all that happened. But yeah, I I've been tempted to do another degree again, third time lucky, but I haven't. I haven't moved forward with that. I

Katy Weber 15:39
feel like I have those moments, like, at least once a week where I'm like, I want to go back to school for geology, like I, you know, like I'm like, I want to become a librarian. Like, it's just, it's that, which is, I find so ironic that so many of us, or, you know, maybe like half of us, really struggle with with the academic environment because we're such curious learners, right? And and we are really interest driven when it's something that lights us up, but the moment it becomes dread. I like what you said about the like with bath, right? That there's no practical application to it, right? So it falls into that should category, which immediately, for it makes me oppositional, right? Like, don't tell me what to do. I have better things to be doing. I could be, you know, smoking up in the park or something like, whatever my high school version of me was. So, okay, so now, so you were diagnosed with PTSD, right? But this was before law school.

Lisa Dee 16:38
I was diagnosed with PTSD, and I think that was 2019, yes, those before the whole law school thing, and I had started therapy. So for the first time in my life, after kind of going through my whole adult life avoiding doing therapy or talking about my feelings or feeling my feelings, you know, I would always just work, work, work. Try to, you know, never be alone with myself. I started therapy in 2019 and I loved it. The woman that I found, I went to her in person, and I actually just loved it. And she really, she really helped me, but we got to a point where she said, I can't take you any further, and I think you have PTSD and you're going to need to go to a clinical psychologist for that, for them to help you with that, and for to get that diagnosis. So I was heartbroken, because this was the first time in my life that I had first bubbled up the courage to start therapy, and then this woman knew so much about me, and she knew the timeline, and she was able to help me through things, and I felt like we were about to get somewhere. And then it was like, Okay, goodbye. You need to go to someone else. And she gave me the recommendation for the clinic, and I went through all these different clinical psychologists and psychiatrists, and I just kind of randomly chose one. I didn't really know how to pick, but I was like, okay, she's got experience and the kind of things I've been through. Let's go with her. And it was a terrible experience. It was horrible. It was completely different. It was very clinical. It was very she was just very the only one I have is clinical. There was like no warmth, it was and I was leaving the sessions in floods of tears. I was leaving the sessions really dysregulated and really ungrounded. And my partner, Rudy, he's a psychotherapist, so then he would come back from he'd go out for a walk when I was on the call with my clinical psychologist, and he'd come back and I'd be just in a complete mess. And he would say like this, no therapist should be leaving you in that state at the end of the session. But it was 15 minutes on the dot, and that was it. So by the end of the session, when I'm starting to kind of unravel, and she's getting me to see things and talk about things, and putting me back into those traumatic situations that, you know, I was trying to heal from, the session would end, and I was worse off. And this went on for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks until it came to the point, I think I did it for maybe four months, and I got to a point where I had to cut her off, but she gave me the PTSD diagnosis. And it got to the point where I thought, You know what, I just need to like be with myself and not be in the past for a while. And that was that, until the next year, when I realized, okay, I have a PTSD diagnosis. I've done research on that. I've been doing things, I've been doing things on my own. I've been looking outside of talking therapy. And it was then, when I was finding things really hard with the degree in my business, that I thought, this isn't the PTSD, like, this isn't that? Like, getting that diagnosis hasn't actually changed how I understand myself. There's something else. There's something else that's not right. And then when I learned about ADHD, that just made sense. It just clicked. So, yeah, there was about, I think, about a year between those two. I. Hmm, interesting.

Katy Weber 20:01
Well. And I also think, too, you know, with my clients, like, a lot of the time, I think we could spend the rest of our lives trying to figure out the source of ADHD, right? It maybe it was genetic, maybe it was trauma, maybe, you know, it's hormones. I you know, like, there's so many ways in which we come to executive dysfunction. But I think, like, the key is to really focus on the executive dysfunction and not why you're experiencing all of that, right? And so I'm like, were we, are we misdiagnosed? Was I misdiagnosed with other I don't know. Like, I think we could probably question that forever. But really like, okay, what are some of the strategies that are going to work for us? What are some of the skills that are going to work in terms of, like, the symptoms we're experiencing, and that's where I think we kind of move forward. Now, you were already a personal trainer, so you had this health background, and some of what were some of the chronic issues that you were seeing in your clients, that once you were diagnosed, you were like, oh, okay, now you're, you know, I'm connecting all the dots here.

Lisa Dee 21:06
Well, when I was a personal trainer and I had the gym, I was working with people in real life. So I had these boot camp sessions. It was women's only boot camps. So I was always like, on the go, always with people, always working, always moving my body. So even if it was a wasn't a workout day for me, I still might have had three or four classes where I would demonstrate the moves, and I'd still be like moving a bit, right? But when I gave that up to go traveling, work online full time, I stopped working with clients. So I stopped really being in in the room with the person who's going through something, because now it was like ebooks and online guides, and I didn't really have to talk to clients. So that was a massive disconnect for me. I didn't have that connection anymore with people that were struggling through things. So when it came to me really struggling through this, and I was comforting, and I was gaining weight, and I wasn't working out anymore, and I was a completely I just felt like a completely different person. I felt like a fraud. At that point. I felt like, how have I been in the health and fitness industry for nearly 10 years, and I'm feeling like this, and I'm looking like this, and I'm a shelf myself, and I can't run for 20 seconds without being out of breath. Like, how did I get here? What happened? And it was being able to, like, not, like, look behind that, like, what is driving me to eat all this food? What is driving me to, you know, sit and not work out because there's a driver there as well, right? Like, there's, there's something there, there's something going on that's keeping us in the spot, that's that's not letting us move forward. So really, it was me just kind of trying to figure trying to figure that out by myself. And I hadn't worked with clients as an ADHD coach or anything like that. It was just me as a health and fitness coach, never knowing anyone with ADHD ever in my life, realizing I had ADHD and then having to have my own transformation the way I used to help other clients with their transformations, and then kind of moving forward with that and sharing that online. And that's where an editor emailed me and asked me to write a book for women with ADHD, and me being like, well, I've never worked with women with ADHD, you know. So I had to then go through that process of putting my story onto paper, but then also reading the research and learning as much as I could, and connecting the dots and figuring things out so that could help other women with ADHD,

Katy Weber 23:30
I had a similar experience with binge eating, where once I realized, you know, started looking into the connection between that all or nothing behavior and that pendulum of extremities that we tend to have with ADHD, and, you know, deprivation, and you know, the kind of extreme behaviors that lead to binge eating, I did sort of be like, Well, I never officially worked with women who had ADHD. I also wanted to call all of my old clients and be like, guess what? We all have ADHD because it was so common and but I think it is really when you're, you know, with any coach, like you see these things in yourself, and then you are then able to recognize it and kind of speak this new language with your clients in terms of, what are they struggling with? And, yeah, so, okay, so what led you to start posting about this online.

Lisa Dee 24:22
It wasn't planned. It wasn't planned at all. It was I was actually at a conference, and do you know the speaker? Ed, my left, he's also an author, he's a speaker. He's a motivational speaker. Ed, my left, he was speaking, and all I remember is him saying your your clients want to feel something like, what? What do your clients want to feel? And for some reason in my head, because I had just gone through that whole transformation, I had just wanted to feel healthy and happy. Like, I just want to feel healthy and happy. That was my thing. And then I realized, Wait, that's what other. 80 history girls want, they just want to feel healthy and happy. Because actually, at the time, a lot of the narrative that I was seeing on tick back then in 2021 2022 it was very doom and gloom. It was very just like self, like just people laughing at themselves. And it was just very, it just wasn't how I wanted to be. It was like hopeless, almost like this is just the way we are, and we're doing forever. And I thought, No, I don't want to subscribe to that. I want to be healthy and happy. And ADHD girls deserve to be healthy and happy too. So I changed my name on Tiktok to healthy, happy ADHD girls. And so then the next video that I post, or not the next video that I posted, but a few months later, I had been sharing, like, transformation videos. Like, I was like this. Now I'm like this, if you have ADHD, you can be healthy and happy too. Like, it's, you know, there is hope. There is ways of working with your brain. And one of those videos went viral, and then I was like, Wait, and all the comments just really showed me that this is something that women with ADHD wanted and needed to hear. And so I just kept sharing that kind of stuff, and it just went from there, yeah,

Katy Weber 26:11
yeah. Well, it's, I mean, it is obviously something that so many of us struggle with. And you know, one of the things I love about your approach is that you really focus on self compassion. Because I think, you know, like I look at my own history, I was a former Weight Watchers leader, I, you know, and I went on my first diet when I was 14, and had, you know, had been yo yo dieting my whole life. And so I feel like one of the things that is really a side effect of ADHD, or, you know, is whatever the word is, like, it's intertwined with somebody with ADHD, especially if you're undiagnosed, is this feeling of, like, what is wrong with me? I need to get my shit together. And so the one thing I can control quickly and immediately is, like, food eating my body, you know? And so we go into these, like, January 1, new me, right? I'm going to transform myself. And so it was like, I just had this whole, like, my whole life was just this list of extreme calorie counting, dieting and feeling great, right? Like, really investing in my quote, unquote health, because I feel like I went about it the wrong way. But like, really feeling like, Yes, I do feel better, but never being able to stick with it. And so you talk about that in your book, right? Like, that feeling of like, I just can't stick with it, because at some point it's too much, right? And so we then we end up getting overwhelmed and burnt out, and then it all comes back, and the cycle continues, right? And so I think that idea, like so many of us have had that history of that yo yo, that pendulum of, like, that's it. This is the time I'm finally going to get my shit together and then giving up, because it's too much, right? And like, you know, at some point there has to be motivation that's not based in self loathing. And I think that's so key to our relationship with health, but we have to kind of get to that point first, right? Absolutely.

Lisa Dee 28:06
And that's why, like self compassion is and self your identity as well is the core colors of healthy, happy ADHD, because otherwise you won't give yourself a chance. Otherwise you just want to keep going through cycles of trying different things, and nothing's ever working out. But as I said earlier, it's what's behind that, like what's driving that how you see yourself is everything, and how you feel about yourself is everything. And if you go through your life trying to fix yourself, you're never going to feel healthy and happy, because you're coming at your wellness and health and fitness from a place of trying to find something to fix you. But the reality is, it's not that at all. It's wanting to take care of yourself. It's loving yourself enough to look after yourself, and it's doing the best that you can. And it's okay to try something for six weeks, and I talk about this, it's okay for you know, you might want to start CrossFit. You're like, I'm obsessed with CrossFit. I'm going to go all the way with it. And then six weeks later, you're bored, and because you're bored, you're not going to classes anymore. In that moment, what's really important is you just say to yourself, you know what? I don't like it anymore. I'm going to do tennis. I'm going to play tennis instead, or I'm going to start running instead, instead of letting the CrossFit membership continue, you're paying it, and you're not showing up anymore, and then you're feeling bad about it, and then the negative self talk creeps in. And then you think, what's the point? I'm always going to be this way, and you won't give yourself a chance. After that, you'll stop. Another year will pass, and then it's January again, and next, you know you're in it again for six weeks. I just that just doesn't work. So it's allowing yourself to be the way that you are. And so if you get really obsessed with performer Pilates, which I was for a while last year, and I got really bored after two months, it's okay to get bored of it and move on to something else, as long as. Because you are taking care of yourself in some way, whether it's running or weight lifting or Pilates or rock climbing or walking, whatever it might be, that is good enough. If it's good enough for you, it's good enough full stop, very

Katy Weber 30:14
well said, and I feel like you know, we spend so much time in that in between where we've lost interest, but we want to stay consistent, right? And so it's like, how do I build that muscle to to make that time shorter and shorter and shorter? Where it's like, Huh? I'm avoiding this. I'm not interested in this. Okay, it's time to pivot, right? And giving ourselves permission to pivot. But I also feel like there is benefit to making things habitual, and, you know, something you can't live without, right? And that's where I feel like I get caught in that muddy place of like, I really do want things to be consistent. I really do. And there are things, you know, like, during the pandemic, my husband and I started walking in the morning because he wasn't commuting anymore, and so we would walk our dog in the morning, and it was this, you know, yes, it felt great to walk first thing in the morning. And I was like, Oh, the rest of my day is so much better. Why don't we have this hike in the woods? But also, like, we talked about our day. We talked about who was picking up the kids, who was doing what, who was making dinner, like it was like, a logistical time for us as well, and and we felt so much closer. And so I'm like, there's all of these other things that were all of these other layers to this hike that made it like, Oh, I really miss when we don't do this. And so now, five years later, we still do that because it's, it's like, it it has become a habitual, like, I can't live without this feeling right, that non negotiable. But there's a lot of things in there too. Like, not everything can feel that way. If you are somebody who really struggles with that, I guess just the consistency, or, I don't even know if it's consistency, I think it's like figuring out those like, what are those non negotiables? For me, is there any advice that you have? I mean,

Lisa Dee 31:59
it takes time. But very early in the book, I talk about creating like feeling how you want, like seeing how you want to feel, and feeling how you want to feel, and like creating a mental movie of that. So I actually take people through I suppose you're gonna have listen to the audiobook for that to hear me take you through it. You can read it as well. And it's about creating a future that you want to be in, like, it's having clarity on how you want to feel. It's having clarity on who you want to be. And again, this isn't coming from a place of who you are and I wasn't good enough. It's just thinking, I wonder how it would feel to feel healthier and happier, like, I wonder how it would feel to have that kind of deep relationship with my partner. I wonder how it would feel to enjoy my job like whatever it might be. That's what I use. Because when I first got diagnosed with ADHD and I was in that slump, unhealthy, unhappy, comforting, all the things, I was sick and tired of it. But I was sick and tired of it for a long time. I had to sit down and close my eyes and create like this compelling future and this feeling that I wanted, and then tell myself I'm never going to feel like this again, you know. And then it's starting with that. What can I do now? So for me, back then, it was when I researched ADHD, I realized that exercise was the top non pharmaceutical treatment of sorts for ADHD, and that's something that we should all be doing. So I wasn't doing it enough, and I started, I started doing 100 days of running, and you'll see in the book, I talk about some days I'd run for two minutes like it wasn't. I wasn't running a 5k every day, but it was the future feeling that drove me to do the thing. And there were days where the whole day would pass, and I came to 11pm at night and I hadn't done my little mini run for the day. And instead of it being about I need to lose weight, it was more about I need to keep this streak for 100 days, because the future vision that I have is so exciting, it needs to happen. You know what it means? What's happening to the emotion? It's using your emotion instead of logic. Like, I should be running, I should be losing weight, I should be whatever, because that doesn't work. Like, we find ways around that. And I go out into the street for like, you know, two minutes, up and down. Just, just say, like, tick off that box, um, but you'll find soon enough, and it might take 100 days, it might take 200 days, but soon it will become habitual and more part of who you are. But again, it's also looking at routine and habits differently, because I feel like, if you set off, like, I will go for a walk every day at 6am and then maybe one day you sleep in till 8am and you're like, you know, it's the week before your period, so naturally, like, you're you're more tired, you need more sleep. You could wake up and think, Oh, well, I've screwed up again. What's the point in going for a walk? I have to start over. Or you could just go for a walk at 8am and kind of move on. You know, so it's that, it's that rate of catching it, where you feel like you've slipped up or you haven't stuck with the thing, I mean, like, Yeah, okay. Like noticing it, being aware of it, and then, you know, not treating yourself. I say this in my book, like there's a difference between holding yourself accountable and treating yourself like an asshole, like it's knowing how to, like, talk to yourself and have compassion for yourself and forgive yourself, and then move forward. And you can do that within a minute. You can do that really, really quickly. And at first you might find it takes a long time to to be able to move forward. It might because you're not used to this way of, kind of trying to, you know, almost negotiate with yourself sometimes, but over time, you get faster at it, and then life happens. Things happen. Life changes. Routines change again. It's holding that feature in your mind and knowing, no matter what, that is possible and that is going to happen, and that little slip up today does not mean that that future isn't going to happen. That kind of faith and that belief is just so common and makes everything so much easier everything. Yeah,

Katy Weber 36:05
I'm a big fan of streaks, too, but I love that you gave yourself permission to do as little as possible, right? Because I think that's key for us with with rigid thinking and that all or nothing thinking, which is like, I have to do a, you know, a half, half an hour at 7am otherwise my whole day is ruined, right? That that feeling of like establishing and giving ourselves permission to do as little as possible, just not giving ourselves permission to do nothing, right, because you know, anything is movement, right, anything is forward movement, except when you're not doing anything. And so like having that permission, because I just did at my last birthday, I did a year of yoga, but the only way I could have done and I did it, but the only way I could have done it was to give myself permission to just spend time on the mat, even if it was two minutes, right, even if it was just one pose, it was like I had, you know, giving myself the freedom within that Street to establish what was my minimum and be okay with that, that there were some days, but I didn't give myself permission to do nothing. And that's where I feel like, when we're always reaching for the maximum, then we so easily can get overwhelmed and and give up so but it's hard. Like you said, amazing you did that. Well, it's funny, because I'm like, I you know, when I finished it, I got to my next birthday, my 50th birthday, and I I dropped it like a hot potato, which I think is also, like, very ADHD, right? I was like, so excited, because I really the whole reason I did it, I was like, I'm going to make this this integral part of my day, and it's going to be amazing. And it was amazing. Like, there's so many benefits. It's great. I love yoga. I would love if I could just wake up and do it every morning for the rest of my life. But, like, this streak helped, and it was great, but I also kind of have had grace with myself about the fact that, like, I'm done, right? And I think that's the thing about finish lines too, right? Like marathon runners, it's like, having those streaks are great, but then you're done and it's like, okay, am I going to move on to something else? Am I not like, again? It's like having that sense of humor, that lightness, that grace, about like, Alright, did you learn anything? And I'm like, I don't know, probably, but, but, yeah, it was a really fun experiment. I feel like there was a lot of like shifting in terms of permission. You know, if I had said to myself every day I have to do an hour every morning, you know, I probably wouldn't have made it three days. Yeah, I think that's great. One of the things I love that you talk about with walking is the arm movement, the bilateral stimulation. So when you were talking about therapy, I was like, did you ever do EMDR,

Lisa Dee 38:39
no, but it's on my next. It's on my list. It's next, it's coming up.

Katy Weber 38:46
Well, you might not have to if you've discovered this hack,

Lisa Dee 38:50
yeah. I mean, I've researched EMDR, and then when I wrote the book, I went deeper into the research, and I was like, This is so obvious. And I actually so typical ADHD. I actually signed up for a training course in EMDR techniques so that I can help clients in the future. But I haven't put myself through it yet, but it did, yeah, really open up this world of bilateral simulation, and what ways can we do it in our everyday life, if you don't have a therapist in front of you to do this the full proper EMDR routine, and so, like, the walking situation, just you see me, I'm walking like this, and I'm swinging my arms, and I'm like, I'm balancing my brain. This is fantastic. Seriously,

Katy Weber 39:32
it's fascinating, because I remember, a couple years ago, I saw a tech talk video where somebody was talking about hiking in the woods and how the kind of doppling of sunlight when you're hiking through the woods mimics left right brain stimulation. And so it's like, EMDR, and that's why hiking in the woods is so wonderful. And I was like, huh, is there something there that's really interesting? And I was asking, like, psychologist friends, and they were all kind of like, I don't know. Well maybe. But then I was like, your theory actually makes a lot more sense. But like, Are there any other like, therapeutic, interesting curiosities that you came upon in terms of just simple exercises? Because it is, like it is, I mean, we know it's so beneficial, but I feel like we're always looking for those, you know, reasons like math, where it's like, okay, what? What is this? Like, practical application that I can't that I can apply so that I can't live without it. You know what? I mean, like getting out of that should mindset when it comes to even just basic going for a walk. I

Lisa Dee 40:38
mean, there's, there's so many, and I included a lot in the chapter the nervous system chapter in my book, because this book developed from like this. I had this body, mind transformation, and that's what the book is meant to be about. And then the book ends up being so much more meaningful, because obviously the more research for hormones, nervous system, everything I learned so much more. And I realized a lot of the things I had learned I was already doing my daily life, but I didn't know why I was doing these things. I didn't know why they helped me. So that was really fascinating. But yeah, the walking, and then obviously there's days where you just can't get out for a walk. You just cannot bring yourself to it. So it was really important for me to include things in the book that you could do. You could, like, roll onto the ground or in your bed, and you can just, like, move your arms in a certain way. And for me, it comes to what these things really help me when I'm feeling really activated, when I'm feeling really stressed out, when I feel like I'm just kind of getting a bit, you know, I'm just feeling very high strung. Let's say certain things help me calm and bring me back into that parasympathetic state, the rest and digest the calm, thinking clearly. You know, clarity, kind of feeling, that peaceful feeling. And one thing that's really probably the easiest thing to do, and I actually did it before this podcast, was just lying on the bed or lying on the floor and just throwing your legs up in the wall, just lying flat, and then putting your legs up the wall. Do you ever do that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that. And that actually helps. It drains, like helps your lymphatic system, but it helps bring your body to the state of calm. And so doing something like that by listening to a meditation or doing a visualization, I love recording meditations and visualizations. I haven't done a file, but, you know, I would get people to do that and really bring your body back into that sense of calm where everything feels like it's going to be okay. I think it's a big one for us ADHD ers, because we can get into this state where the world's falling apart and everything is terrible and we're just messing everything up, and we can bring ourselves back to that state of calm and peace in five or 10 minutes. So that's a good one. And then in terms of bilateral stimulation, there's, there's one I like to do with my arms, which is, I don't know what the name for it is, I think I find the name and it's in the book. But it's about having your arms straight out in front and then letting your eyes, let's say I'm trying to explain about one video, bringing your right arm out to the right and letting your eyes follow it. It goes all the way out, and then letting your head move, and then using your eyes and just following your finger back to the middle, and then moving your head and then repeating that on the other side, over back, and we're back, and you'll know it has worked, when you feel you may have a yawn, or you might take a deep breath, you might start to feel a yawn coming. You're kind of trying to get it out. You know that when you feel you need to be on but you can't get it. It's almost that is your body calming down, that is you going into that part sympathetic state. So that's a really simple one. I love that one. And sometimes it takes four or five, sometimes it takes, you know, 20, either way. But this is really helpful if you're in bed at night and you can't sleep and you're thinking, thinking, thinking, and maybe you haven't moved much that day, so all this internal energy is just pants up. That's a really good one to do. I mean, there's loads of others, but in terms of bilateral stimulation, probably that one's my favorite. That's so

Katy Weber 44:01
cool, um, and also, I think, you know, anytime that there's something like active to follow, right? Because I think, you know, many of us the minute it's like, okay, be still and meditate. We're like, nope, yeah. But I, you know, and I think, again, speaking of like, things that we intuitively were drawn to, is one of the things I why I was drawn to yoga was, you know, the the movement within the meditation, and how incredibly calming it is to have the the Ujjayi breath, right, like the audible, the audible exhale through your nose. And, yeah, anyway, one of the things I think, when we're in that state, right, that, like, frantic, grabbing, you know, treading water grabbing for lifeline state. It's like we think that something that we need, like, we need to work harder, and that something's going to show up that's going to help us get to the relaxed state and to feel less overwhelmed. And so we, I think we tend to, like, get even more frantic. And. Then it's like counterintuitive, like, what we actually need to be doing is stopping and relaxing and getting to that calm state so that then we can think about, okay, what is going to help us in this moment, right? And, and I'm guilty of it all the time, right, where I'm sort of like, ah, and I love what you talk about with that, that ants, Enos, that anxiety that so many of us feel, and how a lot of the time that is connected to just not moving right, and how that's an interesting dot for us to connect, which is like, if you are feeling a lot of that manic, frenetic energy internally, that you know, it's usually your body's pleading with you to go move a little bit.

Lisa Dee 45:42
Yeah, I call it like the stress signals from the body, where sometimes we feel pent up and anxious and on edge. And, you know, there's a lot of good reason for it, because there's a lot happening, but we might then misinterpret that, or say, you know, I'm so anxious, I have anxiety, like there's something wrong with me, something's not right. But what if we look at it just from the place off, it's your body. Your body is so smart, and it's sending you signals to move, like it just needs movement. It helps. It needs movement to help it regulate. It needs movement to help get the hormones kind of working a bit better, and get things into the right places, and help the brain balance out. That's all it wants. And the only way that your body can talk to you is through these feelings. It doesn't have a voice. It has to tell you. So the feelings that you're feeling could be just assigned to move, to walk, to whatever. And the great thing about looking at it that way is that it helps you reconnect to yourself. Because a lot of us are very disconnected from ourselves, and as you said earlier, looking outside for that thing that's going to fix everything. But our bodies are so smart. We're so smart, and if we listen and we start reframing things and how we see things, then we'll be able to handle those moments so much better, because we'll take it as my body's trying to help me. It's trying to tell me, go for a little walk, get on the floor and roll around, you know, whatever it might be, but you'll find that that hyperactivity in the brain lessens, and that's you know, especially if you're someone who I talk about this at the start, the identity work. If you're someone who says, I don't go to the gym, I don't work out, I'm not healthy, I'm not fit, and that's your outlook on yourself, and that's your identity. And then you're feeling all this anxiety and hyperactivity in your brain and your body's asking you to move, but you're saying, I don't run, I don't go to the gym, I'm not a fit person. Then you're just in this vicious cycle. You know that you're you're stuck in so that's why it starts with the identity work in the book, and then we move through the different the different things and movement is such an important part of everyday life for all of us, but especially in those moments of overwhelm and hyperactivity and anxiety and feeling on edge, and I say as well, like when you're going for a walk, a lot of the time, like, don't listen to a podcast. Don't listen to because a lot of podcasts I listen to are educational, business related, helping me learn something, and that is not what I need in that moment. What I need is to walk and notice the birds and notice the flowers and feel my feet on the ground and see the dog running with the owner up ahead, and then talking to the dog and noticing the sky and noticing the air. That's what's needed for 15 minutes, not another thing in my ear to listen to. You know what I mean? We do.

Katy Weber 48:28
But I'm like, I don't know if I'm on board with that one, because I'm like, I love you know, it's I listen to audiobooks, right? And so it's such a big part of my routine is listening to audiobooks with my dog and but no, I know what you mean. It is, yeah, they talk about that a lot in positive psychology too, though, like, you know, really being grounded and in the present moment when you're outside and walking, and I'm like, Yeah, meanwhile I'm listening to books while about that topic, while walking outside. But yeah,

Lisa Dee 48:59
baby steps, right? Yeah, I'm just saying I love podcasts, and I started a new audiobook yesterday. It's called 10x is easier than 2x which is, you know, really interesting. And it's about making your life easier, actually. So it's a great book, but I listened to it yesterday in my walk, but today I didn't listen to it because today I was feeling completely different. I had loads of things going on, and I find that walking in the bilateral simulation and moving the arms and noticing different things and just being with myself. When it comes to the end of the walk, I'm like, Oh, I know what to do about X problem, or, Oh, actually, I feel quite happy now. And that wasn't the intention before the walk, but it's just getting to know yourself and listening to the queues, and then trying to navigate that and trying to help yourself the best you can, and it's going to look different every day. That's the thing.

Katy Weber 49:51
Now I have another question really quickly, asking for a friend. So now that I'm in menopause. Since I am 50, and my personal trainer keeps telling me how important it is to do weight training, I hate working with weights. It's so boring. I really am like, is there any way I can make weight training more interesting? Because it's, I mean, other than having a personal trainer just walk me through it, I have not been able to figure out do it on my own. I mean, my friend, No,

Lisa Dee 50:24
I totally get it. Because again, before my boot camps that I had, I used to enter bodybuilding competitions as well, actually, around the same time, so I did bodybuilding competitions, and then I had my gym, and the girls were lifting weights. But in hindsight, I can see why my my gym, my boot camps were so popular at the time because it wasn't the typical weight lifting routine, like we use weights, and I got them lifting heavy weights, but the structure of the workouts were a bit more fun, and they didn't really know what was coming next. I feel with a lot of gym routines, it's just so boring. You see the routine before you go in. Today, we're doing three sets of squats, then three sets of lunges, then three and it's just so boring. So I don't know what your friends trainer does with them, but something that I love is giant sets. Are the quad sets or tri sets? Have you ever heard of those? Yeah, do three, three or four exercises, like back to back, and then you can change the exercises for the next set, or you can keep them the same and doing that instead for like, three or four sets. So like, you're moving more, but you're moving between things more. And so you're not just squatting and then sitting for two minutes and then waiting and then going again. You know what? I mean, there's a bit more excitement to it. But also the types of movements that you're doing, it's really important to, like, be a bit more playful with it. So, um, you know, instead of doing like, a double handed kettlebell swing, what else can you do with the kettlebell? Like, what does your body want to do? Do you want to, like, push it today? Do you want to lift it today? Like, it's just allowing yourself more freedom with how you move. And I think that's a big problem a lot of personal trainers face, because the way they've always done it is just sometimes a bit boring. And I realized that really early in my career, before I knew I had ADHD, that I liked doing it a certain way, and I now I can see why I did it that way, which is really interesting. So my advice is, maybe, I mean, your friend could find another trainer, or maybe they don't need a trainer, and they could learn different moves themselves and create their own routine. You know, maybe they're looking at a machine and they're like, that's actually interesting. I want to try doing, you know, raises on that, and then I'm going to add on this kettlebell lifts kind of thing. It doesn't have to look how it looks for other people. So you could be in the gym doing something that looks a bit why is she doing that? That's not really hitting a specific muscle, but maybe it's really helping your brain. It might not be the best exercise to build that muscle, but it's the one that you're going to do. So that's what makes it the best one for you. Does that help? Absolutely,

Katy Weber 53:06
it is. It's well said, Yeah. And I know, and I think with weight training, especially, like, I get so worried about doing it wrong, you know? And then, and then I get in my own head too, yeah, it's like, one more reason for me to just be like, yeah, not today, yeah.

Lisa Dee 53:24
It's really important to do. And this is the thing. It's once you learn the basics, and you learn, like, say, the deadlift and the leg press, and you learn to use the different machines, and you understand where you should be feeling things, and how to brace your core, and you kind of get used to what way you're able to live comfortably and just building that confidence. You can do that with a trainer, or do it yourself, and then ask for trainers help you. There's always like trainers walking around that work in the gym that will help you with these things, and then allowing yourself to develop from there, I think, is probably most helpful. But then there's times where I've had trainers and then I got really bored and didn't want to look at them ever again. But you know that feeling can then completely take me out of the game, and it did for a while, like, I didn't lift weights for such a long time because I was so fed up of it, and recently, I've been back in the gym, absolutely loving it, like obsessed with that, and it's because I'm giving myself that flexibility a bit more.

Katy Weber 54:24
Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much. This has been really lovely. I really love your approach. I love how, like, you geek out about all the psychology and the brain stuff, because I think, again, it's like, it really, it really connects to that sense of curiosity, but also like the the connecting the dots that a lot of us need help with when it comes to these things that we know are good for us. But also like really struggle with making it, you know, an integral part of our life, right? And especially with ADHD, when you think about like, the overall narrative from clinicians is take this pill. Right? I'm not anti medication, but I feel like, you know, there, there's so much that is overlooked in terms of how our body needs to function and and how we can help it, and what it's saying, like you said, what it is saying to us, and how do we read that? How do we understand that language? And so I love the fear of that approach that you have. Thank you so much. Congratulations on the book, and is the audiobook also out at the same time?

Lisa Dee 55:28
Yes. So the book, the audiobook, everything's coming out in the US, February 4, Canada, February 4, Australia, February 4, and those are parts of Europe, but then the book is coming out in the UK in May. May, it you're in the UK as well. All right, no,

Katy Weber 55:47
I'm in the US, yeah.

Lisa Dee 55:49
But yeah, the UK. So I live in the UK, so the UK, and then Ireland, and a lot of parts of Europe, in May, I've recorded the audiobook, and the audiobooks great. Actually, really enjoyed doing that. It's coming out in the same day, but UK and different countries, it's going to be later. And it might actually be later than May, because another publisher wants to buy the rights to that something or others to be later again, but get the book anyway, and then, and then, hopefully, the audio book will be out around the same time. Can I ask you a question? What was your favorite chapter in the book? Or your favorite whatever you read? What was your favorite like part? Oh,

Katy Weber 56:25
I mean, mostly I haven't read the book yet, because I just was looking at the kind of sample in sample parts on Amazon, and then looking through your Tik Tok and your Instagram. So, I mean, I I really just like that approach that you have to explaining, you know, what's that about, right? Like, really, that idea of tying it back to what you talked about with math, right? Like that, there really is a need for us to like if a switch has to flip in order to really understand and make something integral in our lives. And I think you like you, you talk about that, right? Like, I think a lot of books about health and wellness assume we already are already there, right? And so now it's more about the like, here's how to do this, right? But I you know you really kind of get that the roots of it all, which is like, okay, you know this is good for you, but you're really frustrated and struggling with the fact that, even though you know it's good for you, something is, you know, standing in your way. And so let's talk about that more. And I think that's so much more helpful with our kind of brains. Yeah,

Lisa Dee 57:32
I love, I love thinking and talking and researching all of that. So the curiosity really worked for writing the book.

Katy Weber 57:41
Okay, great. That's great. And so now you do, you still work with clients. I mean, if people want to reach out to you and find you, what's next for you or Yeah, so

Lisa Dee 57:52
I'm on Instagram, healthy happy ADHD, and then my tech talk. If you search healthy happy ADHD, you'll find me, but my tech talk. Handle on Tech Talk is by Lisa D, so by Lisa D, this is me. Years before I knew I had a book, thinking it'll be by Lisa D, so I was trying to manifest that. And then so honestly, since getting the book deal in 2022, and then writing the book, and it's been like a two year process. I just focus on the book. Like I stopped really posting online. I really went all in on the book. I have a master class as well, which I released in 22 to the transformation that I had, the body transformation. People wanted to know how, so I released a master class. And to short, it's, it's really easy, short, sweet to the point. And I thought that was gonna be the book, but the book ended up being way deeper. So it's a completely different thing. What's next is really focusing on the book, trying to get that message out to as many people as possible. And then I don't work with clients. I haven't worked with clients one to one in such a long time, and sometimes I do miss that touch point, but I feel like maybe, like, realize it sometimes I miss that personal training aspect, but I also wouldn't go back to doing that full time, because it's just burnt myself out. And I know I wouldn't stick with it, maybe like, now and again, and I'd like to have some a couple of clients, maybe now and again, but to reach more people, I feel like I need to create something a bit easier to access, so maybe a membership of some sort, an app, a subscription. I don't know I have ideas. It's just I need to hire the people to help me bring these ideas to life. Because honestly, the book, thank God for my editor and the entire team, because that book Never would have come into existence if I didn't have the people to take it from me and then put it out into the world, you know. So I have dreams and things I want to create. I just, I'm trying to take it a day at a time and allow the book to be what it is before I move to the next thing

Katy Weber 59:52
I know, right? It's such an awful question for somebody with ADHD, what's next? Because you're like, I have a billion ideas. I don't know. I. Ah, yeah. Well, that's amazing. And yeah, again, congrats. And all of those links will be in the show. I'll put, I'll put the master class in the show notes too, because it's still, you know, if that's evergreen, right, it's still out there. So that's wonderful. Congrats. And all the best. I can't wait to see what is next for you. So thank you.

Lisa Dee 1:00:19
Thank you so much.

Katy Weber 1:00:26
There you have it. Thank you for listening, and I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the women and ADHD podcast. If you'd like to find out more about me and my coaching programs, head over to women and adhd.com if you're a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD and you'd like to apply to be a guest on this podcast. Visit women and adhd.com/podcast guest, and you can find that link in the episode show notes. Also, you know, we ADHD ers crave feedback, and I would really appreciate hearing from you the listener. Please take a moment to leave me a review on Apple podcasts or audible. And if that feels like too much, and I totally get it. Please just take a few seconds right now to give me a five star rating or share this episode on your own social media to help reach more women who maybe have yet to discover and lean into this gift of neurodivergency, and they may be struggling and they don't even know why. I'll see you next time when I interview another amazing woman who discovered she's not lazy or crazy or broken, but she has ADHD, and she's now on the path to understanding her neurodivergent mind and finally, using this gift to her advantage, take care till then you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai