Gloria Ward: Executive functioning coaching for kids & adults

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Episode 150 with Gloria Ward.

“I can't believe how many of my report cards said, ‘She's so smart. If only she would apply herself.’”

Gloria is a therapist and professional coach with a passion for helping individuals achieve their personal and professional goals. 

She is also the founder of the Tailored Glory Consulting Group, which consists of four coaches who work with individuals and families of all ages and backgrounds on executive functioning, behavioral health coaching, ADHD coaching and more. 

Gloria and I talk about the process of teaching executive functioning skills to neurodivergent children and adults, as well as how she integrates therapy and behavioral health coaching in her practice with her clients.

Website: www.tailoredglory.com

Instagram: @tailoredglory

Links:

The Vision Exchange Podcast

The Vision Exchange Wind Down/Gear Up Countdown

Enjoy!

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Katy Weber 0:00
Hi, Gloria, thank you so much for joining me today.

Gloria Ward 0:03
Hi, Katie. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.

Katy Weber 0:07
So, anyway, but before we get started, there was something that was just bumping against the mic. I don't know if that was for me just Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that sound whatever that sound is, is that okay, there we go. All right. Look at that outdoor. So awesome. So I would love to hear a little bit about your ADHD diagnosis journey before we before we get started. So how long ago were you diagnosed with ADHD? And what were some of those signs, you know, some of the things that led you to really put two and two together.

Gloria Ward 0:40
So I was officially diagnosed last year in 2022, probably the latter part of the year at age 48. So I think that I've always known that I've always known that I was a little bit different that I thought differently than other people. And I kind of reacted to things differently than other people. And for me, probably around the time that I went to college and started to learn I, you know, went to college for psychology and started to learn all the things and I kind of got into the ADHD part of it. And I thought, oh, my gosh, that's me. That sounds like me, you know. And so I kind of, I've always known and then kind of really understanding some of the actual symptoms, and you know, the criteria, and I thought, oh, yeah, that's, that's so me. And then it kind of just takes me back to all of the things that are so unusual, right, that I thought were unusual that people would tell me were behavioral kinds of things, you know, you need to not interrupt you need to slow down to think through things. And yeah, you know, and so getting the diagnosis was affirming for me, if you will just, Oh, I get it. I understand myself now.

Katy Weber 1:57
Right. And, and, and I remember the first time I heard that statistic of like it kids with ADHD here 30,000 more negative remarks when they're growing up, which I don't know how they came up with that number, but it's believable when you start thinking about all of those traits, right? Where it's like yours, we're told over and over and over again, like, yeah, stop interrupting, or just all of these things that sort of naturally bubble up with within us as children were taught to suppress over and over and over again.

Gloria Ward 2:29
Yeah, absolutely. I can remember all of that. Last year, for me, I was doing a lot of things and a lot of things going on with like school and working all of that. And I just got to a point where I could no longer function. And I just, I couldn't function. It's having a hard time. And so the idea that I need, I need to do something. And like I said, yeah, it was very affirming for me, because of what you said, all those years of my life, just hearing. You know, it's very damaging to your self esteem, right? That something must be wrong with me, I can't do things, the way other people can. I can't focus as long as other people can on these kinds of things. I can't finish a task by why can I do an outline and do a report over like a week or two? Why do I have to procrastinate and wait to the last second? Why am I always so tired? So all of those things?

Katy Weber 3:25
Yeah, you know, it's I feel like I've pontificated about this, you know, how so many of us are diagnosed with depression and anxiety long before an adult diagnosis, right. And it's that feeling like, I feel like the question of what is wrong with me is, is, I feel like that might even be the diagnosis because I feel like like you're saying, it just reminded me of how so many of us our intentions are pure, our intentions are good, right? Like, it's this disconnect between our intention and how we're being perceived by others. This is this the way in which we are constantly unintentionally disappointing the people around us that leads to the depression. It's not this sort of this, you know, sudden thing we've caught, you know, like the flu, but it's really this build up over and over and over again of like, why am I this way? What is wrong with me? Why can't I be different? All of those questions that we have inside of us feeling like at the end of the day, like we're disappointing, the people around us.

Gloria Ward 4:30
Absolutely. Something that you said, it's so interesting for me this idea of depression and anxiety and so so many people have those diagnosis and that's what's being treated but no one ever stopped to think that there's a cause for that, right. So the reason I'm really anxious or depressed is like you said, you know, the disappointment other people disappointing yourself wanting to get things done, and not be able to do it and thinking, like I'm a failure, right? Like I just insist, I simply can't, I simply can't do do that, you know how many times I just I had told myself over the years, like, that's not for me, right? That's not for me. My personality doesn't work that way, my brain doesn't work that way. I can't do those things, you know? And it's like, wait, no, I can do anything. I just need to do it differently, right? I need to find my way to do things. And so you're right is this, the misdiagnosis that we're treating this this one symptom, but we're not really getting to the core of what's going on. And so that's what's really important for me, especially for kids, right to be able to help parents understand, there's a there's a reason for all behavior behavior just doesn't happen. Right? Like your, your child is not struggling with the impulsivity or schoolwork simply because they're, you know, I don't know, they, they want to make your life difficult. I mean, that, that there's something there's that is a sign that they need some more support, what else is going on?

Katy Weber 5:57
Yeah, that I feel like is one of those realizations that transformed how I parent, right, which is this understanding that a child always wants to do well, so if something is happening, it's you know, there's, there's a block there, like they there's a, there's a place in which they need support. And so our job is to help them get there and to not, you know, chastise them or punish them, or all of the things I think our parents did, in terms of like the character, right, if just like, Oh, you're being lazy, you know, you need to work harder, all of those ways in which it's like, I'm going to punish it, I'm going to punish this laziness out of you. And really realizing that again, like coming back to that idea of like, the intention is always to do well. So if it's, if that's not happening, there's something there, that's, there's a disconnect. So do you work primarily with kids? Or do you work with adults? Or Who's Who do you prefer to work with? Or I guess not prefer, but who do you work the most with?

Gloria Ward 6:52
So are we actually work with adults and kids, and so we do executive functioning for children and starting with, I guess, we start about age seven or eight, right. And so because we understand that executive functioning is something that grows in where we're taught, and through, like learning, and you know, it's something that is, it's skills based, where we build executive function skills, right, and so come to finding out children that may struggle, ADHD, autism, some of them, you know, and some of the, there's a barrier there then to building the skills in the way that teachers and parents kind of expect them. So expect them to do. And so we work with children primarily, with those executive functioning skills. We work with children that have ADHD, we also work with adults that have ADHD, too. And ADHD, and some behavioral health types of things that go along with that. So for sure, the anxiety and depression that comes from reaching for goals that are sometimes a struggle to attain because of, because of, you know, the diagnosis because of ADHD or because not really understanding and so my, what is important for me, like I said, is really helping parents understand because I was one of those kids, like you just talked about that was super understood. I can't even imagine how many report cards said, you know, she's so smart. She's so smart. She would just apply herself. And I believe it was kids, I knew I was smart. I was obnoxious is the word that I like to use. Actually, I was that matches kid that would love to let the adults around me know how smart I was it. Like, yeah, that's not really what it is. But I had a hard time controlling what I showed into it and say RAM, and a working in, you know, we do behavioral health coaching. I'm also a therapist. And so working with children and families and seeing children, just to your point, getting discipline and having parents be very frustrated and tired and thinking that we're doing everything, we're doing all the behavioral things, we're you know, doing all the charts, and we're doing, you know, we're taking away all of the privileges, and they're still struggling in school, and even to the idea of parents really worrying about friendships, you know, because sometimes the ADHD gets in the way of social stuff. And so I've got kids that really have a hard time making friends. And because of the impulsivity because of the things they kind of blurt out and say, and hearing parents worry and be concerned about no social things. And so you know, I, I specifically work with kids and families because I want to be able to bridge that gap. I want to help kids understand like, there's nothing wrong with you. And there are some wonderful things about your ADHD that we consider a superpower. There's things that you can do, that other people can't do. And you need to know what those pens are, and use them to your advantage. And so there there are workarounds for everything that's a struggle and so helping them understand that helping them find their path and helping them Parents know exactly how to support them.

Katy Weber 10:03
Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's a mouthful, right? So what because one of the things I've often said, since my diagnosis was like, I never heard the term executive function and executive functioning until after I was diagnosed with ADHD and started to do my own research. And then I was like, Why isn't this taught explicitly in school? You know, because I felt like I cut my life would have been so different. If I had understood what was happening at a much earlier age. And you know, and, and I think also just the explicitness that a lot of us wish we had had more, you know, I think about all the times that my parents were like, Go do your homework, and, and they just assume you know what to do, right? There's so so many of us, I think, who were diagnosed with adulthood had that feeling of like, everybody else seems to have the manual, I didn't get the manual. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing right now. And he's talking about, like, it's the same thing with relationships and conversation. And like, all of these ways in which, in our life, we feel ill equipped, because we didn't have very, very specific instructions that were needed when it came to like the executive dysfunction breakdown. So Tila, but like, I'm like, how do you teach executive functioning to like a seven year old? Like, what does that look like? How, what is that? How do I guess I'm like, you know, how do you explain that to children in a way that they would understand?

Gloria Ward 11:25
Sure. A lot of it has to do with modeling, right? And talking to children about what kinds of things get in the way for them, right? So let's just use the social aspect first. Because that's one of the things and so kids will come and say, you know, I don't have any friends. Like I want to, I want to make friends. But I don't know what to say. Okay, until we start with this idea of okay, who is it that in your class that you want to make friends with? Les, tell me who you think is cool, you know, and this idea of what would you say? And, you know, a while maybe I'll say that, so what do you think they might say back and kind of got walking them through kind of that stuff, like, because really, executive functioning is just being able to think through the whole thing, a thing from the beginning to the end. And that's kind of what gets in the way. I don't, I don't know what to do next. And so kind of helping them with that it works. For social social situations. It also works for like, the schoolwork and things, right, this idea of you being organized, and you know, being organized is the thing, you know, okay, we can organize all of our stuff. But what do you do next? Once you do this one piece, then what's the next thing that you have to do? And sometimes for little kids, and as they get older? We do it for adults? Sometimes we work backwards, like what's the end goal, then what do you have to do from there and go backwards until we get to the very beginning of it, but a lot of talking through it, and then hand holding through it modeling and doing role plays if necessary. And that's it. There's a lot of that, you know, what would you say, if your friend says this back to you? What's the appropriate thing to say? And kind of just helping them take step by step by step like, oh, okay, I have this and then practice.

Katy Weber 13:00
Right? Yeah, I think that was one of the things that was fascinating to me, when I thought about, you know, the signs were there all along, when it came to my ADHD was how often I did rely on scripts, social scripts, you know, of like, what am I going to say, when I get into this situation? What are some things and even my husband has like these, you know, he would say he would have these, like, keep these questions in his back pocket when he meets new people. One of his favorite ones is like, what are you reading these days? Because it's like, everybody wants to tell you what they're reading, right? And it's like, immediately puts the onus on the other person to talk. But like how important it is to have those like, memorized, or, you know, to have those tools in your back pocket that for those of us who really do struggle, especially with the anxiety of of Yeah, what to say next? Gosh, so important. So when you looked back over the course of your life through this new lens, what were some I know, you talked a little bit about childhood, but what were some of those things that you think of where you're like, oh, yeah, the science were clearly there all along.

Gloria Ward 14:00
Yeah, the one thing that really stands out for me is that I can remember years ago, I was very young, and I wanted to build a website. And I did not know how to do that. And I can remember being very focused on I'm going to do this, I'm going to build this website for a business. I was starting as like, my 20s. And I stayed up all night, I started doing it. I wouldn't say three or four o'clock in the afternoon. The next thing I know the sun was coming up, but I like that time had gone by so quickly. And I just remember excuse me, I just remember, you know, how did how did like carpets go by foot size? I can't and so always hyper focus, right? Always if I needed to get something done, I could just sit down and I can do it. I I've always been very creative. And so I could teach myself to do almost anything like that particular day, I taught myself how to, you know, build a website without any knowledge of how to do it, knowing how to do it, but yeah, it's always been that way. You know, if I get on something, I'm on it again. Interrupting I still do that I, you know, at my age, I still have a hard time waiting my turn the conversation so I went in I, I have this thought and this idea. I'm like, I want to say it right away. And so it's funny that we see some always like in this moment where it's kind of like people that are close to me are like, hey, Gloria, do you want to say something like, yes. Because it's, that's always been something that's been for me right now struggling with the impulsivity, wanting interrupting procrastination school, I could never you know, in high school, they teach you how to write an outline we talked about earlier how to write an outline, and get everything organized to write a huge paper, a term paper, oh my gosh, if I try to write an outline, it's gonna be a hot mess. I have to sit down in front of blank paper and just write but it's gonna come to me and it's gonna be amazing. And I'm gonna get a you know, and I can remember telling a teacher that like, that doesn't work. That doesn't work for anyone, like, you're just like, yeah, actually works for us. Like at the last second, and it just kind of flows. And so it's always been that way. And so, you know, as an adult, kind of looking back on it. I'm thinking, oh, yeah, that was my ADHD.

Katy Weber 16:11
Oh, my gosh, exactly. Right, that. Not only that, but like, like you said, it has to be the last minute like, it's not going to come out, even if I tried to do it a week in advance, and maybe convinced myself that I would have all this time to edit and all this time to, like, it doesn't work that way. And I wish, I feel like, I wish I could tell my younger self, like, don't spend all this time feeling bad about your process, your process works. So accept it, and be glad about it. And don't spend all of this time feeling like you're doing something wrong. Or even like you said, the city you know, spending all night, building a website, which I've definitely done in the past, right? Or that hyper focus where you're like, Oh, my God, I've had to go to the bathroom for like, three hours that I'm on the edge of my seat. And I haven't even noticed. But you know, the ways in which we do those things when we are in hyper focus, but then we come out of it. And then we're like, I'm, you know, essentially think of ourselves as lazy because we can't do you know, taxes or something. You know, that's incredibly boring. And you know, the fact that it fascinates me how our sense of self is that we are lazy. And yet, there's so much overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And that was actually one of the things my therapist pointed out to me, which I didn't even understand was ADHD. I thought I had bipolar. Because I would, you know, have these manic episodes where I would do stuff like that, like, and then, you know, she was like, Why, like, but I would come into therapy and complain about how I was this lazy, messed up person who could never get anything done. And she was like, What are you talking about? Like, you do all of this crazy stuff. But we don't see ourselves that way. I'm like, why, you know, why is our self concept so messed up? That's, that's my question to you as a therapist.

Gloria Ward 17:57
Yeah. But I think it goes back to what you said earlier. And this is so unfortunate, to my point about why you want to work not just with children, but also with families, right? Because, to be completely honest, our self concept is messed up because it's, I have this feeling that way. Right? Like, it's everyone else. It's everyone else, it's not a reality of it is, is that because it's the, you know, neurotypicals, right, operate a different way. And so that's kind of how the world is set up. And so when you are different, it's been that way from the beginning of time, no matter what the difference is different different differences, make people a little bit crazy. And they don't seem to understand. And so it's, oh, it's always that and, and so you feel different, right? My process is different. I do things different than my friends, I'm doing things differently than what my teachers are trying to teach me to do. They're telling me to do it one way. I've tried it, and I failed. So I must be a failure. And so we're is that concept of just like your therapists like No, but you got it done. You just had a different path, right? And being able to rethink through some of those things, so that, you know, I don't want to see kids grow up with that negative self concept anymore. Like it's sad. Definitely sad. And, you know, really important to pick out strengths.

Katy Weber 19:18
Well, it's funny, you know, I started out as a coach, and now I'm going back to school to become a therapist because I felt like a lot of the clients I was working with, had had a negative point of view about therapy had had a negative experience with therapy. They really wanted coaching because they wanted something you know, actionable, they wanted, you know, goal oriented, they, they, they needed that executive functioning structure and support from coaching. But a lot of the time we ended up talking about childhood trauma and stigma and all of that stuff where I was sort of feeling like I am a coach, but what I I'm acting like a therapist, this feels unethical, but at the same time, it feels integral roll to the conversation, right? And so I was like, let me just like go back to get my certification because I feel like I can't do one without the other. Right. And so I'm curious now you were a therapist first. Is that why you pursued coaching? Or or, you know, is that what was to talk me through your experience with just sort of therapy and coaching? And what is the difference for you? And how do you integrate those? That's like eight questions in one. But you know what I mean?

Gloria Ward 20:28
And look at the difference between coaching and therapy. Coaching is very focused on the here and now. Right. And it's interesting what you said, because you can't take away the past, because the past is what got us to today. Right? And so of course, we're talking about all of the things that is that are the barriers to us moving forward right now. And sometimes sometimes it is past things, right? When clients start to talk about things that require a new diagnosis, meaning if I'm doing ADHD coaching, and that diagnosis is already there, it is what it is, when they start talking about things that may require new diagnoses, then they need to go to therapy, right? Because they don't do that as a coach. And I think the misconception is that if you're doing coaching that you can't really talk about past things, well, you can, again, like I said, you need to touch some top for that, like, where does that anxiety come from? And especially if we're talking about ADHD, just as we've been talking this whole entire time, the anxiety and the sadness, whether we call it depression or not, right, the sadness that people feel come from this idea of failure and their self concept. And so you do have to incorporate it, I think, what makes me a really good coach, and what will also make you a really good therapist, right? Is that you have we have that those experiences, right? As a therapist, doing coaching, I, you know, as you're going to school, you probably already know that some of the things that we're taught in, in clinical mental health counseling is like how to validate how to move conversations along how to how to bring people from one place to the other. You know, we call that attending skills. And so the things that you say, and that you don't say, to kind of help, you know, clients kind of come to their own understanding of what their goals are. It's an if you're a therapist, and you move into coaching, then you already have the skill, right? You already have all of that to do, right? And coaching is really about, okay, what are your goals? What's happening right now you're trying to build a business, you're trying to go back to school and things are getting in the way, you've got a great paper that you need to do, you're not doing it, it's a kid that you're not doing well in your math class, and you need to be more organized, or whatever the pressing present issue is, then I'm using my therapy skills to get them from where they are in this very present moment to where they want to be. And for me, that's what coaching is, I'm going to meet you where you are today, and take you to where you want to go. And, you know, if we have to talk about the past, it's just to help us understand how you got to where you are today. And that's it. That makes sense.

Katy Weber 22:58
Absolutely. I mean, I almost at this point, I feel like that would be essential. If I was looking for an ADHD coach, I would honestly look for a coach who already has counseling background, because for me, they are so integral and yeah, right. And so much of this, of moving forward is so much of establishing new behavior patterns is examining why you had those other behaviors in the first place, you know, like, just feels like you can't have one without the other and but I also think that requires a lot of training. And when you have you have how many degrees now?

Gloria Ward 23:35
I don't even know how I got through school.

Katy Weber 23:39
I know. Right? I well, I want to talk about that too. Because one of the things you know, I do talk about with a lot of my guests who are black women is that is education and kind of the masking in especially in higher education, but just masking in general, right? And how the stigma around mental health and mental health diagnoses Did you find when you were diagnosed that there was how did you? I guess, like come out? Or did your family members where they were there? They already know. Sometimes Sometimes I feel like we're like the last ones to know. And everyone else is like, oh, yeah, we already knew that.

Gloria Ward 24:18
Yeah, I don't think for me, and in my particular family structure, it wasn't really anything that I had to really share with anyone. It's really for my it was my own kind of process that I was going through. I'll be honest with you, for me, the reason why I got the official diagnosis is because I was finally ready to take medication. Right. And so I've always known that and again, you know, getting the training I can self diagnose myself like it's you know, I'm totally in it and we do this thing you know where it's kind of like it and people do it a lot now and once you have the official diagnosis, it becomes annoying, but people have this habit of saying oh I'm so ADHD like oh, I have ADHD and people do it that or not Are you No, no divergent. And once you realize you're kind of like, No, you're not going to make you, they're not going to make fun of that, or make it like a flipping kind of idea. But I did it too. But I knew that I was pretty sure that it was ADHD, because of what I understood about ADHD, right. And I was going to school, I was getting a master's degrees getting the most recent one that I have. And I was working like two jobs. And I was just taking care of like, you know, life and all the things that I needed to take care of. And as I got older, I, you know, I'll be 50 And it just what I used to be able to do the maths thing that I did, and the overcompensating became harder, I just couldn't, I was having a hard time keeping up with everything, and I was always tired. And my grades were affected by it. And I, it was harder for me to pull out that last minute term paper at the last second, I could do 1015 years ago, it was just, and so I think, just, you know, as we get older, the, the normal progression and you know, sometimes the decline in function, right, and a coupled with the ADHD, it was just too much for me, and I had finally come to a place and I'm not one that I'll be honest to, you know, as a therapist, even as a coach and someone with ADHD, I'm not, I'm not a fan of medication, I was kind of like, and I want to take it is really don't, it's interesting, because, you know, I think therapists make the worse, you know, patients as well, because we're talking about else we're thinking about the game. But I didn't really want to, I wanted to think like could do it on my own, which is, you know, that happens so much like, I don't want to have this extra help. I've been doing it all these years, I can do it. And I think my body and my brain just finally said you cannot do it, you need help, you're not going to graduate unless you do this. And so I went to the doctor, and that's the person that actually had that reaction the way the family would. And I said, Yeah, he gives me the the tests, you know, taking them, you know, I'm talking and I'm, you know, scribbling all the answers down and I said, Yeah, and I think it's time for me to have like Adderall or something. And he took it from me, he barely looked at it. And he says, okay, yeah, so I'm thinking you knew this is a doctor I've been going to and he's thinking, you absolutely have ADHD, yes. Here's the medicine, you take them. And so I've been taking Adderall. I have a person that doesn't take it every day, I talked to some other people that feels that they need to take it every day I you know, I talk to my doctor about it. And I, we decided that on the days that I have lots to do, and I really need to focus. So I don't have the extended release one, I kind of just have the as needed. And I take some days where I kind of need to focus then other days, I'm okay without it. And that was kind of how we went through that, at that at that time, because I was so inundated with schoolwork and all those things. And if it was then you don't need to you don't need to take it every day and take it when you know you're going to wake up and you're going to have a day where you've got at least one thing to do and you're likely to get it done and do it. And so that's what I do. And it works. And those days, I feel the difference. Like oh, I can focus and I can get you know, I can get through some things. And you know, if it's the weekend, and I have nothing to do and then I don't take it, you know, and so I think for everyone is different. Like I said, I know a lot of people that like no, I gotta take it every day, or I'm not gonna be able to function. And that's great. Some people that ADHD meds don't work and they take other things. And so for everyone, whatever works, you know, talk to your doctor and your therapist and kind of get what's going to work for you.

Katy Weber 28:30
Well, it's interesting when you say like, I want to be able to do it on my own right? And I'm like, okay, where does that come from? Because that's something we talked about all the time on this podcast, where I'm like, is this ADHD? Or is it because I'm an angry feminist? Right, because it's like that feeling. I think as women especially right, you know, we feel like we have to have exhausted all resources before we ask for help. And medication is essentially help, right? It's support. And so we're stubbornly are like, No, I need to figure this out on my own, because it's a sign of failure if I need to help, right. And so we're like, okay, let's unpack that. But then I also and I'm just thinking off the fly here, because I've never made this connection before right now. But you know, one of the things I feel is really important with parenting neurodivergent children. And, you know, and why we ended up with these bogus diagnoses like PDA, which I don't know about you, but I think PDA is ridiculous diagnosis, but but pathological demand avoidance, but I'm like, the reason why there is demand avoidance with neurodivergent children is because oftentimes, parents kind of swoop in and say, This is how we're going to fix you. And so they're saying, so the child is saying, You've decided there's something wrong with me and I need fixing so you fundamentally think that I'm who I am is wrong, right. And so then I'm going to become demand avoidant. And so I think about this idea of how we are often rejected this idea of support because support often to us has looked like fixing us We're fixing who we fundamentally are, as opposed to helping us. And I think there's a real specific difference there that in childhood, it's like it got messed up where we felt like all help me at the end, like I said, I'm like, I don't know how clear this is, because I'm just thinking this right now. But I'm like, maybe we feel like help is a rejection of who we are, you know what I mean? And that's why we become demand avoidance. So I don't know. But it could also just be that we're women. And we're taught to not want, you know, that we're also taught, I think it's all of those things. But, but I think there is a specific, there's so much to just say, I don't like medication, I feel like it's so much more nuanced than that. Right? Like, I have a real trouble I have such issues, internal issues with psychotropic medication for the same reasons that you that you talked about, right, which was like, I should be able to figure this out. And who know, why am I you know, what's wrong with me, essentially, that I need this? Why can't I be like everybody else? Anyway, so I don't know if I just I think there's something there though, right. Like, I think there's something there in terms of feeling like, anything that helps us is fixing us, and therefore the being needing fixed is something I think we have this like, visceral reaction to?

Gloria Ward 31:19
Absolutely, absolutely. And I, I don't know exactly where it comes from, I think about, you know, we're, we're raising children, and it's this idea of helping, and, but not helping too much, right, helping, you know, because you want them to be able to problem solve, and, you know, and use their, you know, critical thinking skills. And so this idea. And, yeah, I, it has so much to do with the stigma, right around mental health in general, right, and not being able to, to, to, I guess what we've been talking about complete task or do things the way other people have, and we get stuck, I guess, in this idea of, you're talking about, like the kids and they're trying to be independent, like, I can do it myself, and I want to do it in, you know, somewhere, like you said, and and I'm not sure where it is. But there it gets, it gets confused, this idea of you are strong and independent, and you can do all the things, right. But you can't do all the things by yourself, like we're not an island. And so for some, you don't want your children to be so dependent, that they are helpless rain, and at the same time, you wouldn't be able to offer help. And so I, you know, along the ways, I do believe society just kind of gets us in this place where it's kind of, you know, know, something, something's wrong with me, if I have to take medication, something's wrong with me, if I can't do I can figure everything else out. The other thing about ADHD, though, it's interesting is because there are, there are some things that aren't easily figured out. Right? So when we talk about the superpowers, and lots of people don't like that word, but the reality of it is, is there's so many things that we're really good at, right? That would be a struggle or difficult for for neurotypicals. And so maybe that's part of it, maybe it's an idea of like, no, wait, I, you know, I, I can do all these other things, I should be able to do that. Like, can I do the small little the innocent thing, we can do great big things, like, knock out a paper in one hour, that's like 10 pages, and it's amazing, and you get an A, so if I can do that, I shouldn't be able, like you said to do my taxes, or I should be able to write thank you letters after you know, send down and put them in the mail, I should be able to and so I think that's part of it, too. You know, I can do all these great things. Why can I do this one little stupid thing? Why can I get off the couch today? You know, go make dinner? And I think that's what it is? It seems like it's, it seems like they're such small tasks that are difficult. Right? And so that, that might have something to do with it. Right?

Katy Weber 33:55
Yeah, that confusion about you know, like you said, Why? Why is this difficult for me when other things are so easy. But I think there's also this, like, emphasis on consistency that we get from the beginning, right in school, which is like you have to be good at all things the valedictorian gets is gets A's and everything right? And so you're rewarded for consistency. And that's something we are just not consistent. It's not in our DNA. And so I think there is that questioning of like, well, I don't know why I'm good at some things and not others. And what makes you know, it's really the I think what is so incredibly eye opening about this diagnosis and learning more about how our brains work and executive function and all these things that I had no idea about my whole life. What is the this idea of like, oh, this explains why some things feel effortless and why some things feel difficult and what you're going to need to spend extra time on and all that stuff. But I also think what you were talking about, like, you know at 48 feeling like you weren't able to keep up anymore that led to the diagnosis. I feel like a lot of women are diagnosed with their 40s because they're just fed up. They're just like, I'm not doing this Any work, right? Like I am not, I'm saying no, I'm not saying yes, I'm putting up boundaries, like I am sick and tired of doing all this stuff. And so it's like, you just get to that point where you're I don't know, if you're old enough that you're just like, No, I'm not doing it anymore. And that's where I feel like a lot of us end up in the diagnosis. Stage two where it's like are you know, and then they we blame hormones and perimenopause. But I think a lot of the time, it's just like, No, I, I finally feel empowered enough to say no to a lot of these things I used to take on.

Gloria Ward 35:31
Absolutely the boundary setting. And along with that comes an increased sense of self, right. So that's the idea too, because if you're struggling with people pleasing, and your self esteem issues, and then you get to that later, right, you get older, you're like, I don't care anymore. Like, I don't care who likes me, I don't care if you're mad, I don't care if you don't talk to me, like I need to kind of just sit down and take care of myself. And perhaps it's that sitting still, right? And sitting with yourself. That's that realization of Wait a minute. Right, you know, let me let maybe, maybe all this time, there's been something right, and you kind of look at it. And I think, you know, especially for a woman, you're like you said, you're always going you're thinking of your family, and you're taking care of everyone else, and who has time to really do self care. And so yeah, placing those boundaries, you know, and starting to take care of yourself, and you start to realize, Wow, all this time, I've been making it so much harder than it needs to be right. And so now it's time for me to take care of myself. And that's when the diagnosis, you know, you start reading things and you're like, Oh, my goodness, this has been me all along. And then you want to go, you know, and get the diagnosis and get help, and it's okay. It's the journey, it is what it is.

Katy Weber 36:39
Well, not only that, but also like that realization that this is not the universal experience. So I think so many of us think that this is everyone's experience, and then to suddenly realize that oh, no, I was actually struggling when other people weren't, I think is was a big deal to write realizing how much I was struggling and I was treading water so much. I couldn't even acknowledge that I was struggling in these situations when other people, you know, just do things effortlessly.

Gloria Ward 37:08
Absolutely. But you know what's interesting, though, to your point, I don't know that everyone does do it effortlessly. Right? I think there's a lot of courage in this idea of being able to say, this is hard, and I need help, right? We have this up tick of diagnoses, right in lots of areas. But if everyone were able to be really honest with themselves, I don't know whether it be more ideas, how many people really are struggling and just refuse to accept, acknowledge, you know, they don't, you know, are not able to say, you know, yeah, I need help to your point, they just, you know, refuse help. And it's really hard. And we're talking about parents and kids. And sometimes, that's a very gentle conversation, you have to have a parent's right when they're when a diagnosis is coming in. Because for that same reason, parents kind of like they look at it as even parents look at it, something's wrong, I don't want my child to have any, you know, quote, unquote, diagnosis of anything of ADHD. That means, right that and, and understandably, from a parent's perspective, what you're looking at then often is like, I just don't want life to be harder for them. You know, I just thought, oh, my gosh, what labels and I don't think it'd be harder to the batteries, it's hard already. Know that the diagnosis allows support, right? It allows the people that teachers in school and everyone around to say, okay, it opens up doors for your child to have the extra things that they need to be able to get the support so that they can be successful. And so, I think, again, what we've been talking about just this idea of acceptance lane and having the courage to say, it doesn't, doesn't mean anything other than I need, I need help. You know, I'm not broken. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm not crazy, because I stay up all night. And I, you know, I'm not bad, not a bad kid, because I have a hard time controlling my impulses, you know, I'm not obnoxious, because I interrupt my friends, like, you know, that's all of those things and redirecting that, like, it's not a bad thing. You know, it just, it just means you need some extra support, and we can offer that to you. And so I think

Katy Weber 39:20
it is so difficult because I know with, with my son who's about to go into seventh grade, like we I really, both my kids were diagnosed after I was and my daughter who's in high school has an IEP for not an IEP, she has a 504 for study, you know, for extra time on tests and, you know, some of the quiet areas and some of the things that are really meaningful for her. But one of the things my husband and I struggled with with my younger child is the stigma of the diagnosis in school, right. So like, we really you know, at first when I wanted to get my kids diagnosed, my husband was like, oh, but what are the label the label of ADHD and I was Like, dude, we're already labeled, like you said, you know, we're already going to be getting labels. I've had labels my whole life. But those labels were lazy, disorganized, you know, all of the bad student, all of those were my labels. So let's replace them with this understanding. So for him, I think it was a super my son, I was think it was super important to get the diagnosis so that he could start to understand his own thinking, like you said, but one of the things we really struggle with is how is he going to be stigmatized at school, by his teachers? With a Bible for like, what sort of classes are he going to be put in? Is he going to be tracked differently, because he does really, really well in school, like he's a high honor student. And so we sort of were trying to think about, like, what is the best time to, you know, get him a 504, that it's not going to hinder how he is viewed because it's ADHD is still so stigmatized and still so understood. And so the stereotypes are there in the in the classroom, and we're in like, a rural environment where I don't feel like the teachers have any clue. The the spectrum of ADHD, you know, in kids, especially kids with who perform well and have high anxiety, so we're like, every year, we're kind of like, trying to figure out like, what is the best decision until he you know, with my daughter, I feel like she's old enough that she can advocate for herself. And so like you said, she doesn't have to lead with I have ADHD, she's old enough to now say, I need these accommodations. And for us, the diagnosis allows us to ask for help, without having it to be, you know, we don't have to always say, as ADHD, we can just ask for help now, because it gives us the permission. But anyway, I've like, what do you were talking about that with school? I was like, in an ideal world, yes, teachers would be able to accommodate. But I also feel like as a parent, we're terrified that our child is going to be treated poorly as a result of the ADHD diagnosis, right? And I feel like as part of me feels like, oh, well, well, now we're just like buying into the stereo. You know, we're we're allowing the stigma and stereotype to continue because we are being so quiet and private about it. But at the same time, it's like, well, when it comes to my individual child, I don't know what the best right, I'm not going to be a war, you know, I'm not going to be a social justice warrior. When it comes to my individual child. I'll just do it on the podcast instead. You know, right. So it's like, we're making changes, we're making changes in other places. But until, until it's better understood in the classroom? I don't know if I don't know if I don't know. Anyway, I think it's complicated.

Gloria Ward 42:30
It is complicated. You said that, you know, you it's easier to be social social justice warrior on the podcast, but you can be an avid advocate or even, right, so the idea is, right, you simply kind of what you're probably already doing. One of the things that we help parents do in my company, it's very much helping teachers in the school understand this continuity of care for your child, right? Here's what works at home, me. Teachers, when they're sending notes home, and this, you were sitting down to read and your child is having a hard time sitting still, or whatever it is. And then you know, you already know what works for your child. It's so interesting, because you can have all kinds of experts, coaches, and therapists, and all kinds of school counselors, and all those people in and out of your lives as, as a parent as a child, you know, people that come to help helpers, right? And they can have all the education in the world, and all the best intentions and can be very well meaning but no one knows, you're totally you do think so. Their their job then is to come alongside of you and say, Okay, what's working? What works for your specific child, right? This kind of you talked about, you know, looks for your sentiments not going to work. And so whether you're leading with a diagnosis or not being able to advocate with the teachers, right, and say, Listen, what you're doing is, you know, he's reacting this way, or he's not doing well in this situation, because we have found that doing it this way, works better for him. And you know, the whole thing, right, is that the teachers care enough to say, okay, you know, let's talk about this, you know, there's some way I can do that. How can I make adjustments to the classroom or his schedule, what's happening that can make getting that can make me I think that's where the fiber fours and the Iaps come in, because it's the idea of, it's very hard when you have a classroom full of 23 or 25 kids that kind of just make that that's kinda what you hear. We can make an adjustment for one kid, but you can actually can, and it's necessary because we're trying to help that we're trying to help these children be successful. It's all about inclusion, right? And so it's always about that. The what how can we make sure that this child gets what they need so they can be successful? And so I for sure, you know, advocate having

Katy Weber 45:00
Do I know right? And well, it makes me laugh because I feel like there are those old school teachers who roll their eyes at five oh fours, where they're like, Oh, everybody wants a 504 These days, and you're like, Yeah, everybody wants to be treated as an individual. Like, why is that? So revolutionary, right? Radical? Why is it so radical to feel like each child has their own way of learning? Because it's so antithetical to the classroom environment right now in American education. Oh, there I am on a soapbox again. Okay. I want to stop because I want to talk about Taylor glory. So and I and congratulations on your podcast, by the way, I just I listen to your first episode of the vision exchange podcast, I'll have a link to that in the show notes. It was a lovely conversation. And you guys talk about the origin of the name tailored glory, which is the name of your consulting group. So can you just tell us about a little bit about the name?

Gloria Ward 45:52
Sure, sure. So I came up with Taylor Glory, Glory is obviously a spin off of my name, Gloria. And I thought about the dictionary definition of tailored and gory what they mean. And so the dictionary definition of tailored is, you know, created specifically for an individual, right? And glory being this idea of magnificence, pride in something that you've achieved, right to have glory in something. And so when I think about coaching and helping children and families and adults kind of reach their goals, and want to make sure that we can help them tailor a program that is specifically for them, and it's really just what we just had a conversation about, you know, in the school, it's not one size fits all, everything doesn't work for everyone. So really wanting to get to know, our specific clients, and what is it that works for you, what hasn't been working? What is it that you need, right? And then helping you kind of work towards your goal, so that you can feel as though you've, you've achieved what you wanted to achieve. And so are, you know, we use this headline, not let us help you tailor like that you can be proud of right, then you can take pride in your achievements and things that you've done. And so that's kind of where that name comes from wanting to help people do that.

Katy Weber 47:15
Also, I love it. So and I love how varied or holistic the approach is with the with the group, right? So it's like everybody, there's four of you currently, right? Correct, yes. But I love that how each one of each one of the people, each one of the experts in the group has such a different approach, you know, that it just feels like such a nice, holistic patchwork view. And I feel like that's something in terms of neurodivergent experience, one of the things I feel is so important is to have those places where we can go where you feel like you can have a word you feel like you can have your handheld for lack of a better word through so many different processes. And you know, so many of us get diagnosed, and we go to the doctor's office, and they're like, yep, you have ADHD, here's some medication goodbye. And then you're like, left to your own devices, right, so. So I love seeing more opportunities to feel like you are being helped you are held, right in terms of this treatment plan. A treatment plan is not just medication, it's all the things and all the things we've talked about. So yeah, I just I just wanted to say that it's awesome how everybody seems to have such this varied approach. And I think it's such a wonderful resource to have. So yeah, how can people so it's called tailored glory.com. And it's really work you sort of you told me about how we talked about the executive functioning, coaching, but there's also some other things that you work with, with people, right?

Gloria Ward 48:55
Sure. So again, executive functioning for we kind of call that executive functioning for kids, because like, as I said, you know, regardless, kids are growing in their executive functioning, right? So when they're starting as children just kind of learning how to think through processes. And so we do that, to kind of help children grow in that. We also work specifically with kids that have been diagnosed with ADHD and adult so does even either have a diagnosis. I've had it for a while or are newly diagnosed, I'm like, Okay, now what do I do kind of to your point, I've got this diagnosis. And now. So we kind of worked through some of those things. And then we also do behavioral health coaching. And so there are several of us that are also therapists that have turned professional coaches as well. So we have that background. And so we do a lot of again, even though it's coaching, but touching pieces of what gets in the way, right? So what gets in the way for for you when you're trying to attain some of your goals, and they could be with anything and so we're talking about weight loss, we're talking about, you know, relationships, it could be, you know, again, your career, where do you where do you want to go next in you know, in your career or building a business for yourself, whatever it is, and so whatever is Someone is kind of wanting someone to come alongside them and say, Okay, I need to get from this step to the next one. And I don't know what to do next. And so that's kind of what you do. And I, I do love what you said about my team, right? The team that's there. Everyone has a different, like you said a different specialty. And we've got Jamie who does health and wellness coaching. And so she's all about like, healthy lifestyle exercising and nutrition, right. And so the, you know, if medication is not the way but eating healthy, helps, you know, it helps, it really helps, you know, making sure that you're getting exercise or getting outside and moving and all of those things. And so, you know, she folks focus a lot on that, we have Nicole, who is, you know, we call her mom extraordinaire, that's kind of our nickname for her is and she's got four children at home. And she's also got a daughter, that is odd. DHD so she has autism and ADHD together. And she's just amazing at being able to tell her her family, you know, and and what they do in their their home life to kind of make sure that her daughter can be successful and feel not have to worry about the that stigma that you're talking about in and giving her the tools that she needs to overcome some of those things and to advocate for herself. And, and so she's great at coming alongside parents, right, that are kind of struggling with, Okay, now we have a diagnosis, what do we do? And then we have an A, who is, she's a PhD, and she's been with us, she has been working with children for many, many years. And until again, her specialty is really just looking at what other people see as deficits and problem behaviors and really understanding that no, these are children that need extra support. And you know, being able to put things in place to kind of to kind of help and so you can find is, or website is like you said www telecoil.com. We're also on Instagram at Tellicherry. And so if you need help, ready for you.

Katy Weber 52:02
Now, do you guys work as a team ever with individuals or with families? Or do families come and kind of they choose one of you based on what their most imminent needs are? Because I feel like I don't I'm like brainstorming I'm like feeling like you could do like coaching like group coaching powerhouse sessions with all four of you because you all bring so much to the table.

Gloria Ward 52:25
That would be great. We are thinking about right now we do individual coaching. But yeah, we are just talking about doing group coaching and pulling all the resources together, because you're right, and everyone has like a different background experience and knowledge and bringing it all together to group coaching for kids or for families is something that we would love to do. And anyone has an interest in doing that. Maybe you should do that kind of put feelers out there. inches for group coaching is absolutely, that would be a great idea. We've been talking about it.

Katy Weber 52:56
Right? Well, especially when it comes to executive functioning coaching. I feel like there's always one of the things that I find with my own group coaching experience is how resourceful everybody in the group is. So that opportunity like people are there to learn. But I think that one of the great things about group coaching is that that people teach what works for them. Right. And I think like as neuro divergence, we're always like, that's how we research right? We research by crowdsourcing, and you know, because the first thing we do is like, go to YouTube or go to Facebook and try to you know, when we have a question, and so it's like, I feel like that group coaching dynamic is so perfectly set up for like groupthink, hive mind kind of thing. So, yeah.

Gloria Ward 53:39
People finding your people. You know, you need to find your people that's, you know, the, the tribe that you feel comfortable in, and you'll understand me and so I also, you know, talk to kids about that as well, like, Fine, everyone's not going to be your friend. That's okay. Find your people.

Katy Weber 53:57
Right, exactly. If you've ever had a problem, like if you've ever felt like you'd have difficult time meeting making friends or connecting to people, it's like, get into a room with other neuro divergence. And you'll be like, Oh, my God, I'm home. Yeah, totally. Right. I know. It's such a huge I always say that I'm like finding each other and finding community is one of the most important parts of our, of our treatment plan is being able to validate each other and listen to each other and share our stories like here like you just did on the podcast. Beautiful. Well, that's so awesome. I'm so glad I found you. And I love what you're doing. And I really I'm such a huge proponent of combining coaching and therapeutic and the therapeutic alliance. And I think it's, I think it's so, so wonderful to to be able to kind of say I've been there and I understand what you're going through. But also, you know, coming up with some strategies use and for moving forward and some of the some of the, you put it better. So I'm not even gonna bother. Just, you know, some of the some of the like support in terms of what are those next steps, right thinking about executive function in terms of like, it's just a bunch of steps. We just have to figure out which one to take first, and then next, and then we'll do it together. Awesome. Well, thank you, Gloria. This has been lovely. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. And yeah, so I'll have all those links in the show notes. But yeah, are you working on anything exciting coming up for the fall? Not that you don't have a million things on your to do list already. But

Gloria Ward 55:43
we are definitely working on doing some things kind of here we are in Pennsylvania, and well, actually, I'm in Pennsylvania, but we work with people all over the country all over the country. And so we're doing some things locally. Some of the schools here, we have our podcast. And so we do the podcast that you listen to that's on our website. And when we post that that's actually it's on Spotify and Apple podcasts, right and until it's called division exchange, typically presented as an as an exchange. But one thing that I've also been to one of the things that I love, there's just there's music kind of calms me down and kind of helps me and there's a certain I certain kind of music I listen to, and I don't really know what it's called the I think they call it like Lo Fi, I guess maybe I call it the groovy music. Basically, that's kind of how I described and I started to think to myself, it's the kind of music that I used to drive to and, and do tasks, too. And it, it struck me that other people might like that as well. And so I decided to do a countdown, right. And so every Sunday night at 9pm, eastern standard time release, what I consider the vision exchange, I call it the the wind down Gear Up countdown. And so it's really to wind down from your week, and then gear up for next week and do all the things that you need to do. And we kind of just do that old school file on the radio and just play all of those groobie songs that kind of help people focus until we play lots of like, classical cool and binaural beats and little by beats. And we just you know, and so that's something that people can check out as well on Sunday evening that kind of help you to get ready to.

Katy Weber 57:12
Yeah, I love that. So is it how do we find it is do you go onto Spotify?

Gloria Ward 57:17
It's actually on Spotify. And so if you type in Taylor glory or type in the vision exchange because it you know, or it's called the wind down Gear Up pot countdown, so that's a lot actually. But it's under our artillery glory podcast, right? It's under the vision exchange and

Katy Weber 57:32
as as playlists. Oh, awesome. Okay, I'll put a link to that, too. That sounds so fun. That's Sunday nights. And it's 9pm. Eastern.

Gloria Ward 57:40
It releases at 9pm. Eastern. It goes into it all week, but I didn't want you won't be like

Katy Weber 57:43
the new ones come out. Oh, that's so cool. I love that. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you, Gloria.

Gloria Ward 57:50
Thank you, Katie. Thanks for having me. I really had a good time talking to you. Thank you so much.