Ella Fielding: Creativity, chainsaws, and redefining ‘adulting’
Sep 02, 2024
Powered by RedCircle
Episode 190 with Ella Fielding.
“My thoughts are like sneezes.”
Ella is a distinguished sculptor based in Surrey and London, with over 15 years of expertise in chainsaw carving. She has created monumental installations at events like Glastonbury Festival, and she is one of the featured master-crafters on “The Woodland Workshop,” which airs on Discovery Plus.
Ella and I talk about her diagnosis of ADHD at the age of 38, which came 20 years after her diagnosis of dyslexia in university. We discuss Ella’s academic experiences, her artistic journey, how she discovered chainsaw carving, and how she realized her ADHD brain is fundamental to her creative process.
We also talk about how our imaginative, intuitive, and curious neurodivergent brains can really shine when given the opportunity, rather than feeling like we’re ‘less than’ because of those tedious, administrative tasks that tend to be, ahem, more challenging — and how maybe it’s time to start redefining the term “adulting.”
Website: ellafielding.com
Instagram: @ella.fielding.sculptor
Links:
The Woodland Workshop on Discovery +
- - - - -
Episode edited by E Podcast Productions
- - - - -
Small group coaching with Katy: www.womenandadhd.com/groupcoaching
- - - - -
Work 1-on-1 with Katy: www.womenandadhd.com/coaching
- - - - -
Order the “Hey, it’s ADHD!” course: www.womenandadhd.com/adhdcourse
- - - - -
Did you love this episode? Click here to pledge a one-time donation to the podcast!
- - - - -
If you are a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD and you’d like to apply to be a guest on this podcast, visit womenandadhd.com/podcastguest.
Instagram: @womenandadhdpodcast
Tiktok: @womenandadhdpodcast
Twitter: @womenandadhd
Facebook: @womenandadhd
Ella Fielding 0:00
Mostly I'm working on the subconscious that's going on all the time, and my conscious is sort of coming in and out, and so I have to just trust that if I have a feeling or a thought, I just have to trust it. I think I'm getting better at being faithful to my feelings and trusting myself.
Katy Weber 0:22
Hello, and welcome to the women and ADHD podcast. I'm your host. Katie Weber, I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45 and it completely turned my world upside down. I've been looking back at so much of my life, school, jobs, my relationships, all of it with this new lens, and it has been nothing short of overwhelming. I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience, and now I interview other women who, like me, discovered in adulthood they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths, both professionally and personally, it's wonderful to be back with another new episode, so let's get right into it. Shall we? Here we are at Episode 190 in which I interview Ella. Fielding. Ella is a distinguished sculptor based in Surrey and London with over 15 years of expertise in chainsaw carving. She has created monumental installations at events like Glastonbury Festival, and she is one of the featured master crafters on the woodland workshop, which airs on Discovery. Plus Ella and I talk about her diagnosis of ADHD at the age of 38 which came 20 years after her diagnosis of dyslexia in university. We discuss Ella's academic experiences, her artistic journey, how she discovered chainsaw carving and how she realized her ADHD brain is fundamental to her creative process. We also talk about how our imaginative, intuitive and curious, neurodivergent brains can really shine when given the opportunity, rather than feeling like we are less than because of those tedious administrative tasks that tend to be more challenging, and how maybe it's time to start redefining the term adulting. I really enjoyed my conversation with Ella, and I hope you do too well, Ella, thank you for joining me today. I have been really looking forward to this interview ever since you reached out. I'm so thrilled that you found the podcast. So let's get started. How long ago were you diagnosed, and what was the process leading up to that?
Ella Fielding 2:34
So I was diagnosed in December last year, so I'm a newbie to my knowledge of brain, and it was clearly, glaringly obvious, but I didn't know. But once I realized I was like, I have to be diagnosed immediately. I have to find out instantly understand, which
Katy Weber 2:54
is kind of hard in the UK, right? I mean, yeah, what was the turnaround there?
Ella Fielding 3:01
Well, I was crumbling, so I just I went private, and luckily, my mum and dad helped me out. And so I went private, basically, just to speed up the process. So it was actually really easy, but then the next bit is just harder, getting all the like linking up with the NHS afterwards and stuff. So it's a bit convoluted that way, but I needed that knowledge, and I needed the information so. So, yeah, it was a funny one, actually, because the reason I ended up discovering it is so I was crumbling. I was sort of like I was saying. I felt like I was because basically, I've got young children, like seven, I've got two, like five and seven, and so my career was going well, is going well, and my and I have children, and whatever it was that was happening before, wasn't able to be like, whatever coping the strategies I or however I'd functioned before, wasn't I wasn't able to apply. And so it's just been over the last seven years where I was like, felt like I was like, I could only liken it, which is a funny analogy. You'll see. Why is it was like, holding all the washing and, like, just all and like, socks keep dropping out or something. You're like, fingers are full to the brim, you know. But obviously, I don't really do the washing, so it's sort of a stupid thing anyway. That is what it felt like, which I was just, like, I just, you know, like to my fingertips, is that hanging on? And I was like, told when I was at uni that I was dyslexic, or I found out, because everyone at art school is, and I thought I'd ask and find out, and turns out I was, or am, or whatever. And I was like, I can't seem to do adulting this work thing and managing work and like, getting my commissions and organizing it, and doing all this stuff. And I was getting to the point where I was like, I felt like I was having an out of body.
Katy Weber 10:00
To get by. Or, you know, hide yourself, your true essence, or anything like that. There is a way in which we come at, especially with an adult diagnosis, where we have to start asking those questions, like, how much was I struggling? Oh, wow, yeah, like that. I was struggling a lot, right? Or, you know, just those ideas, that strange dichotomy between you mean, everybody isn't like this, and then also seeing like, oh my goodness, I finally feel seen for the first time in my entire life, right? And really coming face to face with the fact that you didn't feel seen and actually acknowledging that. Because I think that's a lot of ways that we are sort of treading water so much that we don't even give ourselves time to acknowledge those issues, right, those compensations. And so I think that that's also part of masking too, right, which is, you're working so hard, and then, as a parent, all of a sudden, your kids come in and such a shit show that you're like, why am I so exhausted all the time? And then people say things like, Well, you're a new mom, right? Or you're, you know, all those things where it's like, oh, lower your expectations. And that's why I think it gets really difficult in terms of those expectations of ourselves, because, you know, you'd said, like, you're incredibly talented artist, and yet, immediately you were like, but I suck at email, right? So there's always that thing, those expectations of yourself, like you should be both, right and like, where does that come from? Why do you feel like you need to be an adult when you're doing so well at all these other things? I'm totally like coaching you right now, right? I'm like putting you on the spot. But I think it's about, I think there's a part of masking that comes down to those expectations of ourself and like, where do those come from? Yeah,
Ella Fielding 11:43
for sure, and I think that is something I'm working on a lot in permission or exceptions of things that you're good at or not because, for instance, as a creative right, I absolutely have no expectation that I will suddenly rock at accountancy, nor would I expect someone who is in that field, to be able to suddenly create a sculpture, and I would never expect them of it, because it's just not the way they're wired. You don't make stuff like that, because you work in this way. And equally, that's the same with the way that all of the different brains are. And so I think I've become much more confidently being like, no, that's just not like I can do great other stuff. That's just not the thing I do. I'm not that isn't the way I work and sort of feeling better at permissing myself and not basically not feeling bad about it, because it's just I can do other good stuff. Yeah,
Katy Weber 12:35
I feel like the expectations on entrepreneurs are a lot crazier now than they were, you know, 20 years ago as well. In terms of like, we have to be our own social media managers, and we do have to do all of this, like self promotion, and there's so much hustle involved. And I don't know if it's always been this way, but it feels like the amount of skills that we have to feel like we need to have, in addition to whatever it is that's like our essence that's driving us is insanity. And I think of why so many of us as entrepreneurs like really burn out so quickly, because, yeah, because
Ella Fielding 13:13
you're having to do every job. Yeah, by choosing that path, you've actually chosen to do all the jobs.
Katy Weber 13:21
Yeah? So now you mentioned leaving school at 14, but also having parents who were very accepting. So I'm curious, like looking back over you the course of your life, and having those aha moments about those signs were there all along. And you know, it was obvious to everybody, but we and all of those realizations we have, like, what are some of those things that really stood out to you, being being ADHD, traits that you most related to?
Ella Fielding 13:48
I was obviously overwhelmed at points within secondary, at primary as well. But I think primary is more fun and fluid, and you can kind of be focused on a bit easier, and I think it's more self directed in secondary and, like, first year, I went to one school and I just, I just went in and was like, I don't, I'm not sure I can navigate this. It's not really working, and I don't really know how to manage it. And so I left that school after a year. So I left that school and went to another, like, voluntarily. It wasn't. They didn't. The school. Weren't aware of it, but I just could feel that it was not working. Went to another school and was there for three years. Was okay, ish, but I don't know, just didn't really feel wasn't really in the room. I was going out a lot to parties and, like, raving and just doing stuff that was bit more older than my years and again. So I was like, school's boring. I don't want to be here. It's annoying. And so I was very disinterested and disengaged. There was a few people who were like, No, you've got it. We're like, you like, the art teacher was very nice. And there was other people that kind of got me. But other people just had assumed I was not very nice, or didn't I don't know that I wasn't really worth the bother, and then it would just get a case where I'd just get blamed for stuff that I genuinely hadn't done. I mean, I would also get blamed stuff I had done, and I would stand outside and get told off for it, but if they would get told off stuff I hadn't done, not standing around and waiting for the pleasure of being told off for something I haven't done. I'm going to go home because this is unfair and unjust, and I'm leaving that's just such a toxic environment. And their additional needs area was a desk in a room that no one used because they just didn't have any concept of anyone having any dyslexia or any needs at all. So there just wasn't any kind of understanding of that at all. And it got to the end of, like, year 10, and it was just really obvious it was not going to succeed or get anywhere near my potential. And so mum and all the while, like me and mum, were having a rocky road. Mum took me to, like, ceramic classes me and her did the ceramic thing. And Mum was like, oh, and I was like, 10 and, and she just this lady was amazing. It was, it wasn't like one of those paint your number, you know, it was just like she had a studio and she had a kiln, so I could just take clay and make stuff. And my mum said, like, she was just astonished. Or I'd just go from nothing and then suddenly make a head, or like, suddenly make a whatever. And it was nice to see that I could do stuff, so I could do stuff with my hands, but it just the school setting wasn't working, and mum had found out. Mum and Dad had heard about this course at the college nearby that was for school refuses, or like people who, like, had left school and not attained any GCSEs. So she spoke to them and asked if I could go in, but early. So I sat at the year I should have done my GCSEs, but I went to that college instead. But it was like I became evangelical about education. It was like night and day. I went in and I was like, Oh, this is so much fun. I was like, oh, yeah, everyone should learn. It's really great. It's so good you get to do. I know just as like, would just bang on about it to everyone about how great learning was and how fun it was, and how we should all do this more often. It was just like being in this environment where, you know, I was respected, that they were respected. It was just this, we're humans like it just felt this strange. I don't know rules for rules sake was difficult, and when they felt illogical and pointless and authoritarian, just for the sake of hierarchy, I just thought they just was seriously frustrating, which, as you probably know, it's pretty, pretty obvious, that is a fairly fundamental ADHD
Katy Weber 17:49
tray, right? And very much my experience too, yeah, just, you know, really, but also not, you know, until I was diagnosed, feeling like I had been this lifelong learner, right? Like, I was always interested in getting certifications and changing jobs and reading and, like, voraciously learning, but always, because of my abysmal relationship with academia and school and university, I just thought I was dumb, like that was just the label I had put on myself. And so it's so interesting, like looking back at how, yeah, like, learning and curiosity, I think, is central to who we are. But, you know, it's so tragic that I think so many of us identify as dumb, you know, because of a learning disability that we may be were labeled with, or just feeling like, I couldn't get it, you know, like, just never, that feeling of like, what was wrong with me? Why couldn't I do this? What was this, you know, or being told that you had potential, and not knowing what that meant, and all of those things like, but at the end of the day, like, really, just, you know, it's wonderful that you had that experience. That was not my experience with high school.
Ella Fielding 18:57
You know, I actually have more degrees than I have a levels, because I actually could only end up, I did it in such a weird, like, staggered way that in the end it was and I had such a body of work for art school. And luckily, mum and dad were like, look, just get Maths and English. Just don't worry about the rest. Like, do you know, just get those down, and then you can move to the next step. You just can't otherwise. And so I knew I was like, Okay, right? I could, I can manage that. I can just, like, focus on those ones. Just got to get them done. And then, you know, go on to the next level. And but also by being in a college setting as well. At 15, I had this, like, I would say, play school. I was like, a dark room and this plaster room and all of these facilities that were not prioritized in secondary education generally, because art is generally the thing that is like, they kind of just get open of 10 minutes or an hour of that, or whatever. Yeah, so I got to choose all the ones that I just thought were really interesting and inspiring, and it's just and thereafter, I've just had such. Fun time in education ever since. So it just still had never occurred to me, because I kept doing the things that I really liked doing, and I was allowed to and never pressurized to do stuff because it was logical. I just was allowed to study and learn and enjoy things because they made me happy. And then by doing that, I accidentally found my job. So I think by being truthful to the things that bring you joy, often, you end up being the best you and finding a way of finding a job that's the best skill you have, or, you know, finding the things that suit you best.
Katy Weber 20:38
I feel like ADHD, in terms of the diagnosis is, is like, is it a clinically significant disorder, right? And so one of the things I'm thinking about a lot now, as I'm back in school and thinking about diagnosis and looking for traits, is the idea that, like, if I was in an environment that was completely amenable to my brain, would I have clinically significant disorder? Probably not, right, but would I not have ADHD anymore, you know? And so I'm like, are we talking about this brain that sometimes flourishes and sometimes really struggles, depending on our expectations or our environment or so? Is that the ADHD? Or is the ADHD the struggle that comes when you're in an environment that is miserable and all of a sudden you fall apart, right? And so that's, I don't know, I don't have an answer. That's the
Ella Fielding 21:31
thing. Unfortunately, a lot of the focus talks about what is not good, but it's a skill. It's a bloody great, amazing skill. And like, it is an like, I was talking to someone recently about this, that how, like, there's too many people that have it. It is an evolutionary choice to keep it in. There is a reason. Like, same with dyslexia. It's an evolutional choice. I can't say the word clearly. It is an evolutionary choice whatever, like, our reading history is a.of our evolution. Yeah. And prior to that, the skills and the benefits of dyslexia and ADHD, the spatial awareness, your ability to like, hyper focus, your ability to like, go from one place to another and seek new, interesting things, your stamina to do above and beyond what some other people can do. It would make you above and beyond others. But I was talking to this psychologist. I've just started working with, this psychologist who specializes in creativity, and I think we're going to work together and like, map out, see how I work when I'm working, and see how you operate. But she's also looking more into how in the next five to seven years, into like how neurodiversities interplay with creativity and stuff. And some things she said to me was people that flip their letters are often better at spatial configuration. And so because, like, she was talking about this diet guy that does dry stone walling, and she was saying, like, because he can work out this stone will fit in this section, and and it's to do with the way that your brain flips things and understands spaces. And so you look at it like, Ah, he flips his letters, but actually he's bloody amazing at working out how you build this thing and how you do that. And actually that's just a byproduct that just emerges in our western or modern way of operating. But actually it's just a separate thing. So I think ADHD is amazing. It's also annoying. And there's things that like, if I was living in a forest where I had to be like, managing myself on the land and whatever, and I didn't have to deal with my accounts and my bookmaking and my emails and whatever else. I don't think I've even had a clue. I'd have just been quite happily going along, and it's only because there's these like things that keep getting layered on top that then go, Okay, I don't have anything left of me. And then it became I needed to seek that knowledge just culturally as well. Like, I'm sure, different cultures experience it differently based on what we prioritize, what we see as good, not good, and how we treat each other. And you know so depending on where you are in the world, probably is also why there's like a difference in like rates of diagnosis or whatever because of those pressures.
Katy Weber 24:45
Yeah, right. And why I feel like I'm always asking that question, like, is this ADHD, or am I just an angry feminist living in a capitalist society, raging Right? Or all of the above? Yeah. But no, all, everything you said, I absolutely agree with but I think it's fascinating. I think it's the people with ADHD who are having these conversations about, like, all the different connections, right? And this rapid fire, the rapid fire connections you had said, What did you say? You were like my my thoughts are like sneezes. But that those rapid fire connections that we have in conversation. I think, you know, that's such a it's such a telltale way of, like, what I you know, when you're talking about this stuff, and you're just like, feel like that guy with the red string all over the wall. And then there's people who are like, in it with you, and then there's other people who are just sort of like, blink, blink. What's happening right now? Okay, so I want to go back to uni and, like, the first time you touched a chainsaw, or maybe it was before uni. Like, walk me through that.
Ella Fielding 25:47
So I was really lucky. They don't do it anymore. But I was in the last year of my degree where you could either do a dissertation or work with a practicing artist and keep a journal. And I was like, I'll keep a diary and hang out with an artist. I think that sounds like a lot of fun. I'll do that then. And my parents had taken me to Glastonbury Festival a few times when I was younger, and I remember seeing this tree and creature that had all been carved out of chains that were out of massive trees, that each leg was a lot of tree, and it was huge, and it was stomping on a real submerged car, and like a big trowel made out of wood. And was like, planted this acorn. And I remember seeing it when I was about 13 or something. I just sort of like it was there parked dunk. And then when they said you could work with the practicing artists, I was like, I have no idea why. I just thoughts emerge and I, like all the subconscious stuff's been doing this, and I just go and pops up, and I don't remember the thinking logic, but I was like, I'm gonna find out who made that thing that I saw five years ago and go and find out who they are and hang out with them. And so I hunted them down and asked if I could hang out. And actually, I worked with two different artists. So I worked with one guy who was really lovely. Guy lived in in the land, like in this kind of, like stretch tent thing. And he was so calm, and you very methodical, like you take the bark off completely before you do anything. And I was like, okay, cool. Just I worked with him and how to go and stuff. And then I went with this other guy who was like, right, what you do? And he was like, just everything. Was like, Nah, don't take the bark off. It's wasted time cutting off anyway, right? And it was just, like, dressed as a pirate. It was just an ad, right? You got to have a go. And I was like, oh, okay, all right, then. And so I had to go. Was like, oh, it's amazing. This is so much fun, and I liked his way of working, which is a lot more haphazard and not haphazard, yeah, just fast paced and intuitive, and kind of that way of working. And actually ended up so we became good friends, and I ended up working with him quite a lot in the beginning, and also, then from that experience, I came back to university to do my final project, which was in London, and was like, right? So I'm going to do chainsaw grabbing for my final piece. And they're like, What? Okay, so they had to find me a space in the car park, which was just hilarious, because there was these, like busses, covid You'd just be like, just peek up above and you see the top level being like, okay, so getting wood lobbed up to London and stuff and but, yeah, it was so much fun. And, I mean, I did not have a clue what I was doing. I was using a blunt saw, and I was, I mean, it was just a complete mess, but it got me. And the understanding of, like, this is a way of working that's really fun. It's a very direct I have a thought, and the action has happened immediately. And so that could sing about, you know, my thoughts feel a bit like sneezes. If I don't catch them, they're gone, you know, they're like, you know, and it's disappeared. And so I found loads of other ways of working where, like I know ceramics, I love the immediacy of, like, squidging earth together and making something, but then I would maybe have changed my mind by the time it would come out the first firing. And then you've got, like, weight, ages, and then you're like, I don't know what I'm doing half the time. And it's, it's too it was too slow a process to be able to realize the thoughts it wasn't sort of immediate enough. And so I like things like welding, because you could go, I wonder if this would look cool with this dunk. Okay, there you go. And so it's a similar kind of process like that. But yeah, once I found out that you could do chainsaw carving with wood, I was like, okay, that's really amazing. And it was just, and also it's just, it's one of those really weird ways of making that seem to bypass, like, if you said a painting is a lot of money, people go, Oh, it would just be difficult to spend that much money on something. And it seems to be that. Maybe the materiality, the physicality of the wood. I don't know. It seems that there's people that seem to connect with that way of work, making and commissioning, that way of creating artwork that they wouldn't connect with otherwise. And so I have found that I am able to sustain a living in a way that I don't think I could if I'd have been another type of maker. I may, I might have done, but I I am able to live off my art, and somehow it works.
Katy Weber 30:30
Yeah, that's interesting. Like, the artistry and the skill is not necessarily up for debate the way it might be with other medium. Media, yeah, yeah. So interesting.
Ella Fielding 30:41
I think it's in front of you, and it's like, directness, that people are like, okay, fine, well, and
Katy Weber 30:47
it's at the scale too. Maybe, I mean, you just look like you're having so much fun. You look so badass when you're doing it too. Like, given how you know, like, so much of what you were just saying in terms of the other media, the ADHD is woven through, right in terms of, like, the slowness or so many of us have difficulty when it comes to, like, hobbies, or, you know, the idea of, like, getting 95% done and then never finishing things. Do you struggle with, like, doing the same things over and over again? Or is there a lot of malleability in this in this medium.
Ella Fielding 31:23
Yeah, so I don't do the same thing over and over again. I'm very much a case of like, I don't at all. I just can't. But I love people. I love stories, like I've always found like I love people, and hearing that I hate on and I'm talking to you now about myself, but generally, I don't enjoy talking about myself overly. And I love talking to people about them a lot. And I love collecting stories and people and, you know, and I when I was younger, I really had, I had a I had a whole network of old ladies, so I used to go and have tea with and I was about 10, I'd be like, hey, later, Gladys says, and I'd like, go around, and I just like, love looking at all their trinkets and their store, you know, and they're hearing their stories and stuff. And I have to say, that's pretty much what I do in my job. Because people that I want to have this I'm like, okay, cool, but it's not shopping. Okay, let's think about this. Like, let's pull you into this sculpture. Show me your house, show me your things that you've created over your lifetime. Like, show me a spoon handle that you just think is awesome, or, like, I don't know, tell me something about you, or, like, where you are, whatever, and, and it will just be something in that learning about them will show me, like a pattern, or, you know, an image, or come out that I'll be like, Okay, you said you want an owl, which I will do, but I want to bring in all the other bits, and then it's personal. It's about them, and it's interesting for me, because I don't know what it's going to be, and we'll come at it together, and it is that collaboration and that kind of like it needs to be something that has that at its core, I think, and it's kind of that connection. And unless they have that connection, it feels flat, and so it feels so joyful like that. I get to do that with other people, and I think that's where I find the interest and the excitement and stuff. So it never is the same, because the person is always a different person, and their stories are different, and why they've come to it is a different reason. And like the connections as well that I end up having, like almost all my carvings, I end up like having a big carve afterwards, because it's such a personal journey we've gone on that's like this kind of collaboration, of togetherness sort of thing. So it's, yeah, that's how I think I find the i It's always exciting and interesting, because it's always different. But I have also learned I'm not very good at doing things at home. It's the intensity of knowing they're there. What? Because I often go to people's houses, so I work on a tree that's in their garden. So it has a time frame. I need to do it within this time frame, I've agreed what I think how long it will take, roughly. And there's that tempo, and then at the end of that tempo, it's the end, and then I leave. And so it's kind of sustainable for that time. I have learned over the years how it works, and then it's, it's a it's a benefit, but, yeah, I would be a bit, I don't think it'd be very good if I had my own yard and I was like, flouncing around because I I just put things off.
Katy Weber 34:39
Yeah. So yeah. And it's so interesting how, like, we intuitively set ourselves up in those ways without really realizing why it works or what that need is. It's just sort of how we do that. And I think about that with my book too, because I I've shared this before on the podcast, but like, when I wrote my book, it was like a timed contest, you know, where there was, like. You got your money back from the class if you finished your book. And it made perfect sense now in retrospect, because I was like, challenge accepted, right? Like, I was like, but if I had not done this, if I had not had this structure, I would have been sitting around being like, I should write a book for years. That's where I am right now, yeah. But those things where you're like, Oh, I didn't realize that was all ADHD and sort of having to now go back and see it in like, the fabric of your life everywhere, right? Has your process changed? Or has your Has anything changed for you, just in terms of, I mean, obviously a lot changes after your diagnosis. But is there anything that comes to mind in terms of either professionally or even just like as a parent or relationships, or is that like another three hour conversation of like, what are some things that you feel like have really have changed for you in this last half year?
Ella Fielding 35:57
I found it so fascinating, just like looking at myself like a person I'm studying so kind of being like, Huh? That is why I do that, like, you know, and just why I have ended up like, the job I do, like, I cannot, you just say, like, the way of managing yourself and your symptoms or whatever is like, you know, movement is really good for you. And, like, you know, you can't necessarily meditate in the same way another person might, but you can do it through an action. I literally do that all day. I have to think, yeah, only about the sore and, like, where it's going, what it's doing. So I realized I am, like, giving myself, like, a brain massage, like every time I do a carving, because it's like, so mindful. It's like, you cannot think of anything else you are in that moment, and that is what you're doing. And but I also know I don't, because it's that is, that's how I have to work. I have never really done things that have to be exactly like the picture, because I don't want to have to keep stopping and being like, oh, right, yeah, yeah. So I do a drawing, but actually, it's for the client. It's not for me, like, I've got it, so we've agreed, like, what it'll be, but I have to say all the time, like, this is flat. This is not it's obviously in the round. And then I will, I will have to work out how that works. And I now see why I have done that quite intuitively, where I'm like, I always leave it really open, so that I'm not controlled, and I can just feel and flow and and learn what is going on with it. And then, yeah, I think that's a really important process, and I now see why I've prioritized that quite heavily.
Katy Weber 37:46
Have you ever had a commission client who's been a nightmare in terms of their expectations or anything? No, I've
Ella Fielding 37:53
never really had anything particularly that bad, but I've got better at my communication and just double checking that we're on the same page. And so because I can say, think of a spade and you can think of a spade, we are probably pitching picturing two completely different looking ones. We both said, yeah, yeah, it's got a handle. It's got this whatever. But how you visit it, and I envisage it is completely different. So unless I've kind like mapped it out within reason and said or explained, it won't be exactly what you think it is. You know, that was probably more the case before. But no, and I think I would say I might, I'm, I think I am very intuitive, like I get census quite quickly of people, and if I feel uneasy, I won't work with them, because they're just because it's such a personal thing. If I don't feel it and I don't believe in it, I can't and if somebody's not very kind, or the way that they're talking is not very it doesn't feel nice, because it takes a lot out of me as well, and it's sort of like it won't work. So yeah, I trust my gut a lot. I trust it more now because I realize that mostly I'm working on the subconscious that's going on all the time, and my conscious is sort of coming in and out, and so I have to just trust that if I have a feeling or a thought, I just have to trust it. I think I'm getting better at being faithful to my feelings and trusting myself.
Katy Weber 39:29
For so many of us too, we have that really, really strong, intuitive response to a lot of things, but we have stopped trusting ourselves. You can logic it out, yeah, or just, you know, what's wrong with me? Everybody else is thinking one way. So I'm looking at this completely differently. What's wrong with me, right? And that always seems to be the default in terms of our inner narrative. And I think, you know, that's been a tremendous change for me personally, is just that feeling of like, Oh no, like you were right all along.
Ella Fielding 39:58
I've just, I. Just realized that, like, I don't need to know why. I just need to know that's how it feels. So it's okay, you know. And I think, I think all of us, we could do with doing that to be honest and just trusting, if you have a sense of something like it doesn't make logical sense, but just trust it. And, you know? And actually, I'm almost always proved right that it was the right decision. So I think, yeah, I think that has changed mainly, and I think also I realize now why I'm not feeling very good with my email or whatever. And, like, now I can see, like, I've got better at going, Okay, I'm ignoring this one. What is it about it? Okay, pick it out. Rather than just being like, you're an idiot. You're, you know, feeling bad about it, I'm like, okay, something about this is challenging me in a way that's making me put it procrastinate. And why is that? And what is it about it? And I think because now I understand what the procrastination is, it's like overwhelm and anxiety because of, I don't know the way my brain works fit, like, instead of going or anything like that, I'm like, okay, looking at it from an outside being like, what is that about that it's because I know for whatever the reason is. And I think having that knowledge as to what the motivation is behind a feeling is so empowering, because you then can stop trying to be like, why? And then just be like, Okay, that's just how it is. And then what am I going to do about it? And I'm just not wasting the energy beating myself up. And then I'm looking at going, Okay, I need to acknowledge why this one is making me feel like that, right?
Katy Weber 41:40
Right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's, you know, my mantra is that this is information, right? This is, this is to all behavior serves a purpose. So what is this, you know, as opposed to immediately going to that place, and I would challenge us like, you know, at the very beginning of our conversation, you were like, I'm not very good at adulting. And you were clumping in adulting as being like emails or washing or accounting, like, when did that become adulting? Why don't we define adulting as like intuition and curiosity and passion and, you know, playfulness, like, that's adulting, right?
Ella Fielding 42:15
I should have caveated it with the boring adulting that is the whatever the ad at the admin, adult admin,
Katy Weber 42:24
right? And so there's a part of me now that, like, what I'm like, of course, you don't like that, right? You know, one of those things that I credit it to Casey Davis, and the fact that her radical ideas about about, you know, housework, being morally neutral, right? And that there's, like, of course, you don't like this stuff, right? Like, why would you how you know? And now I look at my my disdain for some of this stuff, even though it has to get done, especially as a parent, right? You have to do all this crap. But there's almost like a pride I take in hating it, right? Because I'm like, Okay, we're on the right track. The fact that I This is awful. It just means to me that I don't have, like, the bandwidth for this, because I'm concentrating on all the amazing, fun stuff, and so I'm like, okay, everything is where it's supposed to be, as opposed to ever feeling bad that I you know that it's, yeah, terrible, or that I hate it.
Ella Fielding 43:16
I have noticed, though, that, like, my brain is amazing at being tricked. If I put on a podcast, or if I like, my hands just do stuff, it just happens. And I'm like, if I just forget to even think that thought and then put on the podcast, put the headphones or whatever. But if I remember to do that and then put them on and then, like, and I'll just Potter for ages, and I'll turn around to be like, Oh, my room seems to be quite clean. That's amazing, but I just have to remember to remember to put on a podcast, put my ears on and be like, get down. But I'm lucky. Like, my husband's amazing. We've got a very he's I never made to feel bad. We have our skills, and neither of us makes each other. It just is. It just works really well. He'll just be, like, there's your washing Could you do something with it, please? It's kind of got higher and higher. Like, okay, gosh, probably put it away now. Yeah, there's no guilt tripping. So, yeah, I'm very fortunate in that situation, but occasionally. But like, can you and I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I should, okay, right? I'll focus on being that now.
Katy Weber 44:26
Yeah, right, yeah. I feel like that's been a huge change too, which is just feeling like I can appreciate everything that my husband does without feeling guilty about the fact that I'm not doing it right. Because I can also now see all the things I'm doing, and I never used to pay attention to all the things I'm doing. I would only pay attention to the things he was doing because I didn't want to do them. And so I was so grateful for the fact that he did them that I ended up immediately feeling bad that I didn't also do them. And now I'm like, Thank God you do that, because you know, and I bring all of this other wonderful who knows what I bring, but I'm sure it's great because he's. Stuck with me for so long, but I'm like, I'm not even gonna question what I bring. I'm awesome, right? And I just like the ability to be able to say things like that without irony, I think is I absolutely thank my diagnosis for that. Yeah,
Ella Fielding 45:14
hundreds. I think it's things like, I mean, you know, within our household, like he just likes doing all that stuff. And I was like, I've given you your life's work. That's what me being here has done. You love organizing entirely, and I have provided you a life's life.
Unknown Speaker 45:34
Go me. All right,
Unknown Speaker 45:37
I'm so generous.
Katy Weber 45:40
Well, I knew this would be a lovely conversation. I'm so glad. Thank you. Now I'm curious, given some of the, you know, some of the things we were talking about earlier, about ADHD and like, you know, because that's sort of now four years into my diagnosis, that is a question I ask myself a lot, is, like, I'm not struggling, like, the way I was when I was diagnosed, in in many of those same ways. And so what is that, do I still have ADHD? Or am I like, shifting into more of this idea of, like, a neurodivergent brain? And, you know, really like expanding my, my definition of, what are we even talking about here, which I've always been asking, but, you know, again, where it's sort of like, I feel like I've, I've got more systems in place and less shame and all of that. So would I still be can you know, would I still even be diagnosed? I don't know, but I'm curious, if you had an alternate name, did you? Did you come up with something? Have you thought of something that you would call it?
Ella Fielding 46:35
I did, and I love the bloody piece of paper that I wrote, classic, but I was thinking, though, but it was like, for me, it feels like unpredictable motivation and focus, so like unpredictable sort of misdirected attention sort of thing. So it's sort of like it's just I can't predict exactly what my interests would be, or what the focus might be, or when I might be motivated to do it. So it's that kind of, yeah, I don't know. I came up with some acronym that was not very pleasing, but, yeah, I don't know. I mean, like you've said before, the the ADHD line is, is now known, but I still don't think it's, I mean, I've had so many different experiences. What I've said to people I haven't even told, Well, I've told some people, but really I would never have thought of you. I'm like, firstly, you don't know enough because, I mean, it's like a bloody blinker. Now you know what I do and how I operate. And then other people I know. I've told people and they're like, oh, and they're like, no, no, I'm not sad about it, like it's not like a dying I'm fine about it. I'm really happy. I mean, I cried with happiness when I got told because I was terrified just before he said it, because I was like, if it's not that, then what the fuck is it like? And so when he actually said it, I was like, I just wept with relief that, like, I get it, now I get it, and now I understand it all. And it is lovely,
Katy Weber 48:17
yeah. I mean, yeah, I just now I feel like I need to kind of go back a little bit and say, it's not like, I don't struggle. I do not want to end I don't want anybody to think that they hear me say, like, positive vibes only, you know, like, I'm certainly it's not that I'm not struggling. I still have rejection, sensitive dysphoria all the fucking time. I'm like, Really, I procrastinate, I have anxiety, all of those things are still there. I think just a lot of the struggle that I associate with that is the confusion and the frustration and the the what is wrong with me, questions that I don't have anymore. And so maybe it's just I'm redefining what struggle is. I don't know. But anyway, I've never fallen into the ADHD as a superpower camp for that reason, because I feel like it's, there's, there's a lot still there. I
Ella Fielding 49:05
would say like, I think with the the energy output is like, I think there's always an assessment of, like, is there going to be more of me at the end of this task or less of me? And some jobs make me more full, and some of them make me less. And so I think with even so, even just understanding that anyway, and people, you know, if seeing this person is they're going to be more of me at the end of it than less. You know, there's, there's kind of people that fill you up, and there's people that take all of you away. And I think understanding that and being like all the thinking of those thoughts are taking already too much away. You know, just by taking away the thought of why I can't think like this is saving so much capacity to then allow you to then go, okay, that's why I'm doing this, or whatever. You know, you're not just that I was. I would spend so many time thinking and looping and looping, looping, making, beating myself up and stuff. And it's like, I mean, I've just saved so many calories. I don't know what you know, it's the amount of energy I'm just not using, just from that alone. It's like, so no wonder anyone who's diagnosed feels like a bit less tired and a bit less depleted, because you're just not wasting all of that time, or at least, you know then how to direct that energy and when not to and when to save it, and that you need to kind of treasure it, and how you can use it, and you know when to sprinkle it around, sort of thing. It's like, Yeah, I think it's just understanding, like, how to best portion yourself off.
Katy Weber 50:46
Yeah, very well said. Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me, Ella. It's been so wonderful. And this is, you know, like, were you talking when you were talking about commissions? I was thinking about this podcast too, because that's what I love the most, right? Like, I will never get tired of asking these questions and and if I had to make a podcast in order to do it, that's what I did, right? Because I'm like, I just want to talk to people, but it's just, it really is was so wonderful that so I'm so glad you found so thank you. And then, and in terms of your work, it's Ella fielding.com and also Ella dot, fielding dot sculptor on Instagram and Tiktok. I'll put links to all of that in the show notes. Is there anywhere else that people can find you or work with you?
Ella Fielding 51:35
There was a TV show called The woodland workshop, which you can find on Discovery plus. And it's like through series of that which I did, which is good fun, so you can see me wielding my chainsaw and making things
Katy Weber 51:50
Awesome. Well, thank you again. It's it's been a real pleasure. Thank
Ella Fielding 51:53
you so much. It's been such a lovely one. Thank you.
Katy Weber 52:01
There you have it. Thank you for listening, and I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the women and ADHD podcast. If you'd like to find out more about me and my coaching programs, head over to women and adhd.com if you're a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD and you'd like to apply to be a guest on this podcast, visit women and adhd.com/podcast guest, and you can find that link in the episode show notes. Also, you know, we, ADH dears crave feedback, and I would really appreciate hearing from you the listener. Please take a moment to leave me a review on Apple podcasts or audible. And if that feels like too much, and I totally get it, please just take a few seconds right now to give me a five star rating or share this episode on your own social media to help reach more women who maybe have yet to discover and lean into this gift of neurodivergency, and they may be struggling and they don't even know why. I'll see you next week when I interview another amazing woman who discovered she's not lazy or crazy or broken, but she has ADHD and she's now on the path to understanding her neurodivergent mind and finally, using this gift to her advantage, take care till then you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
